Accounts on IG that I followed as a lib like so.informed, Greta Thunberg, and AOC support Palestine, but endlessly make clear they see Palestinians and the liberators of Palestine as strictly separate entities. It’s sickening going into the comments but at least full on Zionists get ratioed.
Israel literally bombed the evacuation route while civilians were using it. End of discussion.
Even that argument imo is conceding too much to the Zionists. Even if the Zionist entity facilitated a completely peaceful evacuation it would still be committing ethnic cleansing. What they are doing is telling Palestinians to leave or die. They are either supposed to agree to be ethnically cleansed out of their homeland or be bombed to death. This is not a choice at all. Anyone who talks about Palestinians evacuating ANY part of Gaza is advocating for a step toward the completion of an ethnic cleansing project, because we know that the occupation regime has never allowed Palestinians who have left their homes anywhere in Palestine to return. That in itself is a form genocide regardless of whether or not the people themselves are all physically murdered.
Proof? Or just the plain old “they must have done it” like the hospital bombing BBC report, and the following disappointment when they found it was an actual terrorist organization in charge of the negligent and criminal loss of life.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/16/middleeast/israel-palestinian-evacuation-orders-invs/index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67114281
https://www.ft.com/content/95c5fcf1-c756-415f-85b8-1e4bbff24736
The last one has a paywall, use Bypass Paywalls Clean extension to access it
None of the links has any confirmation of the claims, further than that, it says “We spoke to several weapons experts but they said it is hard to tell what caused the explosion based on the videos of the aftermath”.
Maybe hold off on the premature conclusions and avoid the BBC’s eagerness to please one side of the conflict.
The last one cuts out the Israli claims and says that the attack was most likely made by IDF. The first two links were only provided as a confirmation that something indeed happened there. (And don’t pull the "but most likely ≠ 100% card, this phrasing was reserved for the case where aliens invaded Earth for a second and bombed random places. Humans physically can’t confirm a lot of things and our sciences are backed by assumptions here and there).
In no way am I eager to please one side of the conflict, that statement was a premature conclusion on your part. I’m not pro-HAMAS, I only put my 5¢ into the thread because you seem like one of the unapologetic Israel supporters.
It quotes a single source with no additional data. The last article also says: “While pro-Palestinian activists and official Hamas statements blame the explosions on Israeli air strikes, it is difficult to conclusively prove whether these blasts came from an IDF strike, a potential Palestinian rocket misfire or even a car bomb.”
I think a more reasonable assumption for any denial by the Hamas is that they are lying, they lied about every act of war they made until now, even going as far as to deny any civilians were murdered in the 7.10 massacre.
There were also reports of them blocking the escape routes to the south with trucks.
So no, I do not accept your assumption.
They don’t support Palestine. They support getting clout. What solutions has AOC offered? She literally said she would vote for iron dome, which isn’t defensive. If 2 people have a gun and I give one of them a bulletproof vest, the vest is not defensive. She is either dumb or purposefully obtuse, which more vile but same impact either way.
This is what I always say. Most of these progressives are either stupid or they’re wolves, either of which should be disqualifying. AOC’s mantras of imperialism need to be made obvious to all the people still championing reform over revolution.
“We support Palestine as long as they protest in a way that is easily ignored” isn’t supporting Palestine. I am not a Palestinian nor have I lived in Gaza, though I do have friends in Gaza right now. I have no right to tell people there how to protest and fight against people who have kept them in a concentration camp since the day they were born.
They tried peaceful protests, they got killed and ignored.
“…but I condemn Hamas!” is like having to couch any criticism of the US military with “…but I support the troops!”. It’s a meaningless platitude that shows you care more about having a sanitary acceptable opinion than anything else.
Exactly, no one asks for a denunciation for the people that ran a literal rape dungeon in Iraq called abu ghraib. We should, but no one does. Yet somehow, everyone becomes an expert on fighting oppression all of a sudden.
“one of the most horrifying things I’ve ever seen”
– a person who didn’t actually see anything“I actually saw those babies”
Source: A friend of a friend who saw a photo Nicki Minaj’s cousin’s balls generated via ChatGPT
While its nonsocialist politics are unideal, I don’t see the point in condemning Hamas when not only is the IDF far worse but the Zionists created the conditions that let Hamas exist.
Somebody can accuse me of ‘picking the lesser evil’, but I don’t see the situation as that simple. Hamas, its mistakes, and the lack of alternatives: neocolonialism should be held responsible for all of that, because that is what is controlling (or attempting to control) the situation. That is why I focus on that and not Hamas.
nonsocialist politics
Not even their argument. They’re just like “the media is right to say Hamas are terrorists, but anyone with empathy can see Israel sucks.”
lesser evil
Not even, as far as I can do they haven’t done anything intentionally that is bad. The only thing is not being all communists. They are the primary fighting force for liberation and totally justified.
Their position during the war in Syria was not great. They were duped into siding with some of the forces fighting against Assad. They have since corrected their position and mended ties with Hezbollah too, but what that episode shows is the limitations of a resistance group that is primarily based in non-materialist ideology.
That is to say Hamas should be critically supported but pay attention to the critical part whever they do adopt some questionable or even outright harmful positions on certain issues. For now however all of that is secondary - what is primary is their function as the main armed Palestinian resistance and the protectors of the people of Gaza.
In that role specifically they deserve our full support, as do all other resistance groups like the PFLP, PIJ, etc. regardless whether they are secular and socialist or not. National liberation must come first. The CPC recognized this during their own war of national liberation from imperialism and colonialism, and so must we.
I am increasingly doubtful about the Israeli numbers. I think most of them were probably IOF forces, armed settler fascists, things like that. Probably some civilians got killed but probably Israel killed at least as many as Hamas if not much more in their blind firing on their own settler populations. But it won’t matter if this much comes out within the next month or two because the western press won’t report it and the narrative will be there.
