I stopped into a gas station, and the worker, who is Indian, made a comment that shook me. He said USians are spoiled and don’t appreciate how good we have it, and that’s why everyone wants to come here (not the shock), and I said, "yeah but you don’t hear about our kinds of crime, in China, Vietnam, etc.
And he said because people don’t report it, because of family honor, not just sex crimes. So people end up dead or simply missing, because these crimes aren’t reported. And I thought about that for hours, because some vague something bugged me. Finally I realized, and as much as it is reported, here, it’s still underreported, for the same reason. And not just that, but also because the same family members who protect family honor are the same ones trafficking their family and inducing them into crime, drug dealing, stealing unnecessarily or worse, taking the rap for the rotten family members, who won’t even bail them out of jail. And we’re so blinded by our own wounds, we don’t even see it, right under our noses.
I am not sure about the culture of underreporting crime stats in the west but it is safe to say that a substantial volume of crimes to unreported mostly those targeting marginalised peoples.
What the guy said is true for India, though I am assuming he is not talking about India in that particular scenario. But projecting that on China, Vietnam is close-minded. He has no idea how things are there and is assuming.
cw: talking about SA
Living in India, one thing that becomes very clear is how unsafe women and children are. You will find an article in the newspaper every other day where a child was raped and murdered and those are just those get reported, accepted by police and then reported on by the media. It is really fucking bad. So close-minded people assume that such a diabolical state of affairs is normal.
By all accounts, China is much safer than India. The biggest shock for me was that women feel safe walking at night in Chinese cities. This is unimaginable in India. So basically he doesn’t know what he is talking about. China probably has unreported crimes as well but there must be a difference of order of magnitude.
Thank you for telling me this. I’m still thinking about it, because it really is messing with me.
What do you mean by “our kinds of crime”? That could mean a few different things to me and I want to make sure I understand you.
I agree that people don’t report crime because of “family honour” although maybe I would call it “loyalty” in the north american context. Distrust of the police (for good reason!) is another factor. I’ve only ever involved the cops in a crime against me once, and that’s because I needed to report the theft to get insurance to cover it. We both knew there would be no investigation and no recovery of the stolen property.
What do you mean by “our kinds of crime”? That could mean a few different things to me and I want to make sure I understand you.
This was a comment made by a retail worker during a brief transaction that lasted about two minutes, tops. Not being a mind reader, I will refrain from speaking on their behalf.
I agree that people don’t report crime because of “family honour” although maybe I would call it “loyalty” in the north american context.
Possibly, but I don’t know. The way it came across was honor killings, and probably that he’s Indian lent to that perception, rightly or wrongly.
I agree that people don’t report crime because of “family honour” although maybe I would call it “loyalty” in the north american context. Distrust of the police (for good reason!) is another factor. I’ve only ever involved the cops in a crime against me once, and that’s because I needed to report the theft to get insurance to cover it. We both knew there would be no investigation and no recovery of the stolen property.
Possibly most working class USians, including myself, probably share that sentiment. There are obviously glaring exceptions, but those are the ones that are publicized.
This was a comment made by a retail worker during a brief transaction that lasted about two minutes, tops. Not being a mind reader, I will refrain from speaking on their behalf.
In your OP you said this was your response to the retail worker:
and I said, "yeah but you don’t hear about our kinds of crime, in China, Vietnam, etc.
Oh yes, I see, I was still thinking about what he said about not hearing about sex industry workers’ exploitation and crimes against them.
I mean drunk driving deaths, armed robbery, brutal assaults for no discernable reasons, criminalized poverty/homelessness, and such.
Thanks for clarifying!
When I was talking about people not reporting crime because of loyalty I meant in North America (just want to be sure I’m clear!).
It might be helpful to consider that how crime is reported in the media will vary culturally as well. And how it’s counted too! You know the saying, “Lies, damned lies, and statistics”?
Different areas might define a crime in a different way, boundaries are shifted to make areas look “worse” than they are, etc. police departments want high numbers to ensure funding, US politicians might want immigrant groups to have higher crime rates to justify deportation or limiting immigration. Sometimes no one is collecting data at all.
I found this article about drink driving stats in Vietnam. I have no idea if this is realible or highly biased but I thought it might be of interest to you (it’s paywalled but the abstract is pretty interesting):
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22458787/
Data on the percentage of drivers exceeding legal limits are not available, but police statistics indicated that drinking alcohol was a contributory factor in 7 percent of motor vehicle crashes. This is likely to be an underestimate, because the police and health services do not have the equipment to measure the blood alcohol concentration (BAC) levels of all drivers in crashes. Motorcycle riders and young people are in the high-risk groups. There are strict BAC limits starting at over zero and severe punishments for drunk drivers involved in serious crashes. However, the police do not have adequate manpower or equipment to conduct regular and frequent roadside checking for drivers who have been drinking.
Here is an (older) study with police checks points: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0020138313702110
Breath Alcohol Concentration (BrAC) was collected through police enforcement checkpoints in the two provinces.
A total of 8,404 drivers were tested for BrAC levels of which less than 0.25% were female. Of 1,639 drivers displaying BrAC levels in excess of the legal limit, 87.3% were car drivers, 7.9% motorcyclists and 86% were between the ages of 25 and 44 years.
Those are staggering numbers! 19.5%! But one also has to consider that the legal limit is 0 for cars and 25 mg/dl for motorcycles.
To compare, here is an article about canada: https://www.canlii.org/w/canlii/2011CanLIIDocs139.pdf
Roadside surveys conducted in Vancouver, Saanich, l and Abbotsford on Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday nights in 2008 found that 9.6 percent of the drivers who agreed to provide a breath sample were positive for alcohol. Comparable data collected in 1995 were available from Vancouver and Saanich. While the percentage of alcohol-positive drivers fell sharply between 1995 (18.7 percent) and 2008 (7.8 percent), the percentage of those with BACs above .08 percent increased from 2 percent to 2.7 percent. The number of drivers with BACs over .20 percent in 2008 was greater than in 1995 and the subsequent roadside surveys.
The federal limit in canada is 0.08%, which is 80 mg/dl. Let’s assume these were all cars and that’s 9% who had some alcohol in their system. The canadian stop seemed “voluntary”, and the Vietnamese one didn’t specify in the abstract. Is it useful to compare the two sets of numbers? Probably not really. Maybe # of traffic deaths involving impalement per capita would be the best way, but data on that is limited in Vietnam as mentioned above.
Anyways, I know the reason for the different crime rates wasn’t your point but I thought an example of differences in how data is collected and limits might be interesting to get into as well.
No worries. And I’m well aware of the griminess and corruption of the legal apparatchik.
