If a woman is forced to wear a burqa, and it is illegal to be in a public place while wearing one, that simply means that woman will not be going outside. This is straight up misogyny and will make life hell for some already extremely vulnerable women.
If you are going to violate freedom of expression anyway, why not do the sensible thing and criminalize the oppressors here? Make a law that imposes fines and mandatory feminism courses on anyone coercing women to wear anything, including by using religious arguments.
Like, apply this to any similar situation. Almost everyone agrees domestic violence is bad. Do we fine women for being in a public place with a black eye?
This serves to keep them isolated from society which only slows integration and might actually keep the communities unintegrated forever. Terrible and racist law
Even for women who are not forced- if you consider your face to be private, you won’t be as likely to want to go outside if it must be shown.
I’m perfectly fine exposing my stomach in a women’s changing room or at home, but I’d feel weird going out in a crop top or wearing a bikini in public. It’s not a self-consciousness issue, I’ve posted pictures showing it online in the past (anonymously and without my face), I just consider mine private. I don’t apply that to anyone else either, I often think someone looks nice in an outfit with an exposed midriff, and I definitely don’t think they’re “showing too much skin” or anything.
The women I know who choose to wear any type of religious dress feel similarly- going out without it feels embarrassing and like you’re exposed.
Fucking hell racism will hide anything. Guess what now protesting with a mask is a crime. Just in time for all this lovely AI facial recognition that’s being rolled out. Just in time for the first nukes to fall. Strap in folks. It’s gonna get bumpy.
Awful racist nonsense.
In Portugal, violators face fines ranging from €150 to €3,000, with exemptions for health, professional, artistic or weather-related reasons, as well as in places of worship, diplomatic missions and on aircraft.
So, wearing a COVID mask is okay?
Or wearing a burqa while doing an artistic dance, or … could you claim it was a sun screen?
YMMV. Just depends on how the cop dragging you around the corner by your hair to issue you an arrest warrant is feeling at the moment.
Presumably
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-13038095
this is an article that’s a bit older, though it shines light on the situation in different countries, mainly european, and also reports on public opinion in several of them.
I understand the problematic side of isolating affected women.
Though I also see worries in regards of secularism and a topic where different cultures hardly fit.
There surely is also a factor of signaling what culturally is appropriate in different European countries and where citizens are not ready to compromise that.
I think I write that as yes, this is something that is sad to see as necessary, though we need to understand also this side. Without I see no path to solve disagreements in the long run.
Though I also see worries in regards of secularism
That’s not what secularism is. Secularism is about separating the religion from the state; the state having a burqa law is very much not secular.
There surely is also a factor of signaling what culturally is appropriate in different European countries
As long as you apply the same standard to Iran’s hijab laws. See the problem now?
the article describes situations where the burka is forbidden in schools etc. so it is a point where there is a conflict. There surely is overlap
It is a strong religious symbol, and there are numerous ways to perceive that. I’d argue if you think about it as a symbol of suppression, then it’s problematic that this is allowed to begin with.
And if people don’t want that in their communities, that is not wrong. And acknowledging that allows at least Me to build a bridge from there to an actual agreement.
I don’t understand the Iran comment though 😓
I’d argue if you think about it as a symbol of suppression, then it’s problematic that this is allowed to begin with.
That’s not how freedom of religion/speech/expression works anywhere that has those things. If it does, then the Israeli flag would’ve been banned ten times over. If “I don’t like something associated with this” (under whatever label you choose) is enough cause to get rid of a civil liberty (such as freedom of expression), then it’s trivially easy to use the same logic to get rid of any other civil liberty. Do you want to live in a world where the state can just ban self-expression it doesn’t like? Would you want your local far-right party to have this power?
And if people don’t want that in their communities, that is not wrong.
But do they have the right to enforce that want violently (which is what this; laws can only be enforced via violence)? Again, you can quite trivially extend this logic from burqas to Muslims, Jews, or what have you. Either these freedoms exist or don’t exist, and if they don’t exist you don’t get to have a democracy anymore.
I don’t understand the Iran comment though
It’s very easy to justify Iran’s hijab bans, and the brutal response thereof, along the same lines as you did. After all, it can be pretty trivially asserted that “what culturally is appropriate” in Iran is hijab. You can’t claim the Iranian government is in the wrong but the Portuguese one is in the right; those positions are mutually exclusive unless you specifically add something that favors one side over the other (hint: That thing is racism; these policies are almost always pushed by racists because they’re racist and then repackaged for moderates).
Call me crazy but I’m betting the intersection between people who support this and people who support Iran’s hijab laws is basically zero. I wonder why.
I don’t know about everywhere, but there are usually “dress code” rules, either enforcing wearing something (like clothes) or not wearing something (like masks).
I don’t see it as a big problem, it’s not unusual at least. I would only be concerned with the enforcement and penalties.
I prefer “service based” rules, refusing service to those who ignore the dress code, rather than jail or fines.
