Okay so I have never been into the Souls games. The whole “brutally difficult” thing never appealed to me, and watching my friends play was enough to turn me off.
However I decided to take the plunge and try Elden Ring recently because of all the amazing hype. Tons of “I’m not a Souls gamer but I loved it!” kind of hype.
And it’s pretty fun! I get why it got so much love.
But I also, after a week or two of play, have identified exactly what I don’t like about Souls games. It turns out it’s not the difficulty. I grew up playing in arcades and on the NES so I’m no stranger to trying things over and over until I get it right.
It’s the damn death penalty. I cannot express the depth of my hatred of losing progress. Games with save points that are too far apart or games where you can lose items when you die, etc, are just the worst for me. And in Elden Ring, the stress that goes along with trying to get back to my corpse to get my money/XP back is stress I don’t want or need.
So I ask you all this: can you recommend a Souls style game with the fun gameplay loop but without the punishing death penalty? Does that even exist or is it just not a Souls game without that? I’d love the carrot of [learn fight, get better, epic win] without the stick of [now go grind low level mobs for XP, loser].
Interestingly I’d say Elden Ring is the most forgiving when it came to the “death penalty” you mention compared to all the other titles. There were far more rest points and things were so much more interconnected so you can stroll through/around most of the enemies to get back to where you died. Not always but a lot of times.
Also I found that really using your summons (especially mimic!) really helped with the difficulty. Also using magic makes life way easier. A lot of people just tend to go for the pure melee build which is making life really hard for yourself.
Yeah, I have no pride about using summons for the boss fights. I figure I can be l33t and solo bosses on my New Game+ play through if I ever get that far.
I do have alt-itis bad in these kinds of games. I started with a 2h Strength build, tried dual wield, sword and board, pure int mage, pure dex sword/bow, and dex/int spellblade. So far my 2h build and my spellblade have been the most fun for me. As you mentioned, I realized that the versatility of the spellblade worked really well… the ranged magic trivialized some areas and having a melee tool let me hold my own when range wasn’t an option. I am starting to think I need a better dex sword than the Estoc/Rapier tho. The poke poke move set is really bad against groups.
ANYWAYS, I’ll look into the mimic!
I did a int/dex build as well and loved it. I used the Demi Human Queens Staff and Moonveil Katana upgraded to the max, I may have switched the staff at some point but that took me very far. You should also look into the FP physik tears, especially the Cerulean Hidden Tear + Magic Shrouding Cracked Tear which makes it so easy to blast off some big spells for free and high damage. I especially recommend using it with the Comet Azur to wreck bosses right off the bat.
Dying and losing your runes in Elden Ring isn’t as big a deal as you think. The runes you collect from general enemies throughout the game areas are mostly inconsequential across the whole length of the game. The bulk of your rune income is earned by killing bosses, and there’s almost always a grace to spend those runes after you down a boss.
I used to get the same anxiety as you when playing Souls-likes. Once I accepted that losing my runes a few times is inevitable when navigating an area for the first time, that anxiety lifted and I could focus on just exploring and having fun.
Dark souls 1 or the remaster is still worth playing. The map design is once-in-a-lifetime good. There is a pretty hefty penalty like in other souls games, but it’s just getting hollowed and losing some souls. DS3 is also good, maybe a more refined version of 1, but I personally don’t think the world is as cohesive with the loading screens.
The trick is to just get used to being hollowed all the time and spending souls asap when you get them. You don’t lose gear when you die, and gear is pretty important. The real progress comes from learning how to deal with each enemy though, and that comes from dying. I guess it sort of boils down to “git gud”, even though that wasn’t what I was trying to say here lol.
Death is another obstacle in all the soulslike I’ve tried. I’ve learned to not put so much stock in valuing souls/xp as they come and go, but more important is upgrading gear/learning move sets
If you are looking for “learn fight, get better, epic win” without much of a death penalty, maybe look at Monster Hunter?
It’s not the same as a Souls game - not much world exploration, not much plot, zero gothiness - but it is 3D Fantasy Boss Fights: The Game. With 14 genuinely different weapon classes to choose from.
And if you faint three times and fail the quest, all you’ve lost are the consumables you spent on the attempt. (If you give up early and bail, you haven’t even lost that.)
I also second this. After you master your weapon and go into ‘advanced’ play of MH, it’s harder than any soul game, without penalty tho.
By advance play, I mean normally for each weapon, you can go in and keep attacking, you will win eventually. But your hunt might take a long time. After you get better and better, you will learn that the weapon of your choice has meta-play; you will want to try that and get better, you will keep practicing, and you will learn monster move set, timing, and their weak points, min-max your gears, etc… that’s when the real game of Monster Hunter started ;)
I played for thousands of hours and used to play every day just to get better and better. It’s a very relaxing and rewarding play.
Try celeste and super meat boy if you want a skillful platformer with low penalty.
You can even get an item in Elden Ring called the Twiggy Cracked Tear about a third of the way through that lets your Physick flask grant the same effects as a Sacrificial Twig for 3 minutes. Once you get that, the stress of losing Runes can be greatly diminished.
Simply drink it prior to crossing a fog wall or at a difficult point on the path to Rune retrieval.
If that’s not enough, and you’re on PC, you can download a simple mod off Nexus which eliminates Rune loss on death entirely.
Elden Ring was my first Souls like game, and the biggest thing for me was to stop worrying about “losing” progress. You end up with so many opportunities to get runes that I never felt like I had to grind once and leveled up naturally as I played the game.
Maybe try Hades or Dead Cells if you like roguelites/roguelikes? Fundamentally different genre but gives me a lot of the same vibes. You inevitably die every run, but you keep all the meta-progression/upgrade resources you found during that run. So really, dying actually just gives you a chance to spend those resources to get stronger rather than taking away your progress.
Roguelites sound like a good fit for you in general if you like challenging, arcadey games that don’t punish you too severely for dying. It’s usually expected that you die a lot lol
I actually do play a lot of roguelikes/roguelites and yeah, I suppose certain games in the genre do have a similar vibe. I’ll check out those two, thanks!
Maybe you would like Tunic, it’s souls-like but you do not lose all your currency on death and you can adjust the difficulty in several ways
It’s a 2D Metroidvania-type game but Ender Lilies is the closest game I can think of to that delivered the same sort of challenges as the Souls games, like having to sometimes fight a boss battle dozens of times before you finally learn the patterns, without a disheartening death penalty or needing to go back to retrieve anything (you do return to your last checkpoint with respawned enemies though). It’s admittedly a little rough around the edges especially with some questionable level designs (In one spot I had the hardest time spotting the waterfalls over the background - but also I played it on a small Steam Deck screen so that might not have helped) - also it’s not a terribly original setting/story but I still liked it overall.
If like the “beat your head against the wall until you win”, but dont care too much about the rpg elements and losing your progress, Furi is a great game.
The game is JUST boss fights, so there’s no trekking back to the boss every time you die. But the actual bosses are brutal, multi-stage journeys that scratch that same itch that Souls games do.
Thanks, I’ll look into it!
