I certainly value my life, why should other lives not be valued? I would not want harmful treatment to others of other species. Most won’t change from their ways to not contribute to such, I am aware. It is still what would be very well for all of us in general to do. We do not have to contribute to the misery and slaughter of many animals being used, we could be much healthier, and not contribute to more land, water and resources being used with greater waste left, as environments are worsened and many species go extinct with the contribution. I really found tasty meals with this way I have, to continue with, and have been doing very well with it for well over a decade.
Asking why people are like this without genuinely seeking to understand is just bemoaning the state of the world. The world is a place of unavoidable ignorance and suffering.
Most of us were nonvegan before becoming vegan. We know damn well why people choose to consume animal products. They’re wrapped up in their own suffering via capitalism and only want the familiarity and convenience of emotional comfort via food, after another stressful day at work.
If one can understand that most people are suffering from ignorance and have a hard time accessing their compassion, the one can relieve a lot of their angst at the world. Then, one can develop compassion for all who are suffering, human and nonhuman alike.
Ive sort of become a vegetarian. But I have 15 chickens running around on a half acre and they give me plenty of eggs.
I’ve always wondered how vegans would feel about this scenario. Like they are against animals being harmed and thus choose not to eat animal products but what about an individual with chickens who takes care of them and enjoys the eggs they produce?
Copying my comment from elsewhere to reply here:
In the wild chickens often eat their own unfertilized egg to regain the calcium and other nutrients they lost from it. Chicken breeds used lay way more eggs than they would in nature making these losses kind of severe for bone health (10-15/yr in nature vs ~285/yr for commercial hens). A lot of sanctuaries give things to chickens to reduce that egg laying rate and then at that reduced rate feed them back their own eggs (doing so at the unnaturally high egg-laying rate is believed to potentially create issues)
So far, every vegan I’ve asked about this reacted positively.
My spoiled girls get to run around a big yard eating ticks and bugs and seeds. Sometimes I give them the popcorn gravel. (The kernels and half-popped bits left over) They help me turn over my compost pile and they process some of the stuff I add to it. Sometimes I sit outside with them because they are fun to watch. Chickens have personalities.
And after all that, they still give me eggs. I eat them, and sell them to others who will eat them, because the alternative is to throw them away, which feels wasteful.
There’s actually another alternative. In the wild chickens often eat their own unfertilized egg to regain the calcium and other nutrients they lost from it. Chicken breeds used lay way more eggs than they would in nature making these losses kind of severe for bone health (10-15/yr in nature vs ~285/yr for commercial hens). A lot of sanctuaries give things to chickens to reduce that egg laying rate and then at that reduced rate feed them back their own eggs (doing so at the unnaturally high egg-laying rate is believed to potentially create issues)
@CADmonkey @YoureHotCupCake
Hello. For me, eggs are like tree leaves. If you “throw them away”, it feeds your compost, soil or other fauna. In Nature everything is Transformation, not waste ;)
If you have Chickens and even you “take care” of them, this is anyway considered as exploitation by vegan
Indeed. There is no valid reason not to be vegan.
@arcine @FredVegrox
Yes there is. An I think this is called spirituality : good/bad and material don’t exist ^^ veganism belongs to duality…Using Buddhist principles to justify a practice (eating meat) that is fundamentally against Buddhism (eg Gautama Buddha was vegetarian) has to be the worst argument ever.
If anything belonging to duality is invalid, then congratulations. You have justified absolutely everything and its opposite at the same time.
Both suicide and not committing suicide can be justified like this. War, Murder, and Genocide, but also why we should eschew them.
You have cast a net so wide you have managed to say absolutely nothing.
@arcine @Flying_SquirrelOG
@FredVegroxOk thanks, you too : You have cast a net so THIN you have managed to say absolutely nothing lol. But Nothing is Already something…For me the Non-Duality is fondamental and that’s why everything else is Bullshit !
Buddha said Every action is karma ! And from i read he couldn’t explain all the paradox in the world. Why not Mention Shiva or even the Snake ? The “good” can only exist if the “bad” exist (yinyang and duality)… Therefore there is no way to know if what you do is good or not… And most supposed Good Things are actually Bad … Everything is transformation…we are not in Nirvana, we are on earth!!
Vegetarian ? The Plants on earth, Milk, etc are toxic and that’s why we get sick and old as well.
Adam and Eve were Vegan, they Ate an Apple and See what Happens lol. Best Regards. Julien
People are afraid to change. They turn a blind eye to the suffering of animals and the planet (willful ignorance) because they think becoming vegan would destroy their social life. They are afraid to stand out. What will happen with their relationships with friends and family. Will they be perceived as a hostile out-group? Or make life hard for everyone around them?
This is what I think is stopping people who can even agree with veganism philosophically. If they aren’t open-minded they will simply cling to the any justification for carnism possible.
The fears I’ve listed are not hard to overcome, it’s privileged and selfish to not even try. But the main point it’s social fears that’s stopping people.
Ironically there are some honey farms or dairy farms, chicken egg farms that have much better quality of life for those animals than we do for some vegan workplaces and how we treat our fellow humans who produce the “vegan” food.
The meat, dairy, etc. are actually particularly harmful to human workers
Together, poultry slaughtering and processing companies reported more severe injuries to the US Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) than many industries that are popularly recognized as hazardous, such as sawmills, industrial building construction, and oil and gas well drilling
Revealed: exploitation of meat plant workers rife across UK and Europe
There is evidence that slaughterhouse employment is associated with lower levels of psychological well-being. SHWs [slaughterhouse workers] have described suffering from trauma, intense shock, paranoia, anxiety, guilt and shame (Victor & Barnard, 2016), and stress (Kristensen, 1991). There was evidence of higher rates of depression (Emhan et al., 2012; Horton & Lipscomb, 2011; Hutz et al., 2013; Lander et al., 2016; Lipscomb et al., 2007), anxiety (Emhan et al., 2012; Hutz et al., 2013; Leibler et al., 2017), psychosis (Emhan et al., 2012), and feelings of lower self-worth at work (Baran et al., 2016). Of particular note was that the symptomatology appeared to vary by job role. Employees working directly with the animals (e.g., on the kill floor or handling the carcasses) were those who showed the highest prevalence rates of aggression, anxiety, and depression (Hutz et al., 2013; Richards et al., 2013).
I know of no factory for “vegan” food that kills the male workers days after they are born, and keeps the female workers in confined spaces for their entire lives, while forcibly impregnating them to ensure there will be a future population of workers. But please go on.
Most people easily overlook misery of others.
For me, it is habit, culture and the extra work to get started. It is much easier to just get a lunch menu and not to care about it.
But of course you are right, there is no good reason to not go vegan, as there is no good reason to ignore global warming, reject clean energy sources, EVs,…
