- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.world
- linux@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.world
- linux@programming.dev
Fork time? Maybe all the anti-systemd zealots were right all along…
Edit: To address whether it is likely that this change will affect users: Gnome is planning a stronger dependence on userdb, the part of systemd where this change is being implemented. https://blogs.gnome.org/adrianvovk/2025/06/10/gnome-systemd-dependencies/
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Has anyone even looked at the PR? Why is there such a big stink about adding an optional birthday field to a JSON schema? It’s opt-in and can’t be validated in any way.
That’s like saying OpenSSL is the thin end of an anti-encryption wedge because they provide FIPS compliant modules. Or complaining that it puts your privacy at risk when you generate an SSH key and it asks for your address.
The problem is the laws getting passed, not with software that gives people a choice about whether to comply.
Just think of all those Azure and AWS VMs needing age verification as they’re spooled up, destroyed and receated every few minutes…
…Practically, what does this even mean for a systemd user like me?
What app would use this? And If anything actually uses the field, can’t I just enter a random date, like I have across the internet forever?
Self reporting has long been honored as the gold fucking standard for honesty! How dare you sully that with your very discrete scrolling to a random year, and not even bothering to select a date! Our data mining overlords will be displeased.
They implemented part of the the low level works needed to implement birth date verification. Commercial distros like Ubuntu, RHEL and SteamOS might use it for law compliance. It’ll very likely be as easy to bypass as it can be since no one really wants this.
You mean tied to IDs or something?
Commercial services would’ve just implemented that anyway. And yeah, likely with “absolute bare minimum effort.”
I’m still a bit confused. This thread is acting like this is a slope to systemd distros requiring an ID check, if I’m reading it right.
You mean tied to IDs or something?
Anything goes, ID is one way to do it.
This thread is acting like this is a slope to systemd distros requiring an ID check, if I’m reading it right.
The post itself is phrased like that for engagement.
I didn’t need one more reason to hate systemd
We graybeards tried to warn you about systemd but you acted as fools.
It does not help that non insignificant amounts of systemd criticism comes from Lunduke and gang, often ignoring the actual technical problems with systemd and turning into culture war.
I don’t mean you, just my thoughts.
Guilty as charged xD
I know the debate around systemd is going on for quite some time, I understood the basic reasoning behind it but I don’t have the technical knowledge required to truly decide for myself, so I just didn’t pay too much attention to it and followed what my distro of choice does.
The good thing about this “new development” is that it’s not just a tech debate anymore, it has such wider implications that it’ll be much easier for people to decide where to be.
i’m going to start dyeing mine so that people won’t just keep ignoring me like some old man yelling at the neighborhood kids to get off his lawn. lol
It’s so hilarious that the most recent thing that’s happened on this shitty PR is a request for Claude to review their code.
@grok is this bug free
i think it’s really wholesome that a lot of 126 year old people use linux
While I think it’s amazing that not only are 95% of Linux users 56 years of age, but they even share the same birth date!
Yes, the Unix epoch is the obvious choice of birth date here
We should all agree on a common birthday, until operating systems enforce ID upload
you missed the joke I think: Thu Jan 01 1970 00:00:01 GMT+0000,
UNIX timestamp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time
I never cared about the systemd debacle, now I do. I don’t want that shit on my PC.
So, declare your system users’ birthdate as Thu Jan 01 1970 00:00:01 GMT+0000 and get on with life.
You did care, or else you wouldn’t be having this meltdown.
You must be the most dramatic person in the universe, calling that a “meltdown”.
I am !
What part of “now I do” you didn’t understand?
Time to move to Guix !
Has the lack of software ecosystem improved much lately?
As usual, poettering is a piece of crap.
Why would anyone on Linux, having free choice of all Linux OSes, choose one that actively compromises your privacy?
This is why Linux should never be a corporate, paid-for ecosystem. The nerds that keep all this shit running for free will not be interested in maintaining spyware OS.
Problem is, most distros use systemd, if they accept this implementation, distros will inherit it.
I don’t know what it would mean for distro maintainers to revert this change, but I guess it wouldn’t be easy.
I’m personally just happy sysvinit distros still exist, hopefully sysvinit won’t cave like systemd seems to be doing.
Very true, and this is a good argument for the importance of diversity in everything Linux.
The fact that there are distros not using it at least means there’s room to fuck off to those if this gets out of hand.
Successfully merging this pull request may close these issues.
None yet
Just write a shell script that changes the birthday every few minutes lol
Or an alternate implementation of the API that fetches it to flag any programs that call it.
QUESTION: if I run my own system with local accounts, full root access, and no remote accounts… why should I care about whether systemd “MAY BE ABLE” to store someone’s date of birth?
Sounds to me like, for all I care, they could add fields for ethnicity, religion, d size, political orientation, colonic maps, or whatever else they want.
If it’s to build systems shared with underage family members, schools, or other public system… I personally DGAF.
you can say dick on the internet
Because the loss of control is never done in one move. It degrades, slowly. It is a slippery slope.
Today its this, next year something else that is slightly more controversial but, same as this, will likely be adopted.
5 years down the line law comes in with KYC - Lennert, that shitweasel, implements it, same as this. It blocks your services without activation. What then? Will you be more upset then?
What about a few years after that when you browse some website that is against the “administration” and you get flagged, next morning ICE drags you out of bed, kills your dog and you dissappear?
Will you give a shit then?
Maybe this is all exaggerated, but so was saying that ICE would off people in the streets a few years ago, yet its reality, today. The world isn’t what it used to be, you got to fight, constantly, otherwise your freedoms get eroded.
If the whole story was the addition of this change with no other context, I’d agree. But if you read the PR description you’ll see its more than that. The laws in question are specifically called out. This suggests that whether or not the legal interpretation of compliance changes (the law could require more than just DOB entry, aka DOB verification with government ID), systemd is planning to comply rather than join the legal battle against these invasive requirements.
Yes, I get that they may want verification with government ID… but unless they do it at a firmware level, anything above a FOSS Linux kernel on my own unlocked hardware, is fully under my control.
So far, it sounds to me like “age verif theatre” as applied to single user “jailbroken” systems. If they added this on a locked down Android system, as a requirement for network access (note: this is an actual proposal being floated around) then that would be of some concern… but systemd? 🤨
Theatre is all you need for proof of concept. Later it can be reinforced by making it a requirement for access to banking websites et al.
They want to store the actual birthdays (not just a boolean stating it complies with an age bracket). And using claude to review PRs… fucking systemd
