Been chewing this since yesterday. Okay, here is my two cents:
- yes, what LLM companies are doing is a problem. So dropping anything that has anything to do with their products is a sane way to make a statement
- yes, LLMs can be used effectively in development. Whether Lutris author has been using them well - I don’t know. Guess won’t bother to check either, have other things to do
- yes, doing the stunt with “good luck guessing what is what” is bullshit
Net total, given I’ve already dropped GNOME because of their culture: guess now I am dropping Lutris. Not because of AI per se, but because of “fuck you” move
Net total, given I’ve already dropped GNOME because of their culture
what was wrong with gnome’s culture?
I use KDE BTW, I don’t want a fischer price/mac lookalike ui
- You want customisation? Use extensions
- We broke extensions, because
- Also, no API for extensions. Patch our code manually
No integrity in that see I, so drop them I do (Yoda voice)
Also refusing to make literally any compromise on cross-desktop protocols that everyone else wants, stalling progress for years
It’s completely a coincidence that all games are no longer working in Lutris here, on multiple machines, after upgrading from 0.5.19 to 0.5.20. Weird.
I downgraded and everything works again. I did not try 0.5.22 or the quickly removed 0.5.21.
I guess we know where to fork from.
I guess we know where to fork from.
Honestly: Why? Lutris Gnome headerbar UI sucks anyway. Looks and behaves like crap especially under Gamescope but in non-Gnome desktops it’s not too great as well. GloriousEggroll and team created umu launcher to make creation of that sort of graphical front ends much easier and a bunch of those popped up already. Might just as well migrate to one of those than to maintain yet another software fork.
Tell me to not use your software without telling me to not use your software.
I’ve been using Lutris for several years, but after reading about the LLM additions, I’ve removed it from my system and am now solely using Heroic for my non-Steam games.
Biggest problem with this will be when whatever agent they use to write code inevitably spits out copyrighted code and the project gets killed.
If you don’t know every single codebase the genAI LLM is trained off of, you cannot trust it. Might as well be playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun. You’ll have better odds of surviving than if you use genAI LLM slop.
AI bros try not to be assholes challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]
AI assisted coding is okay as long as you’re transparent about it and don’t do this shit.
AI assisted coding is okay as long as you’re transparent about it and don’t do this shit.
It allows idiots like me who cannot program for real to make some useful tools (I use it to make Basic scripts for my own use in LibreOffice, for example). That said, IMO it’s crucial that these things are self contained, at least for now. So far all LLMs are way too error prone and no way is the Lutris author reviewing all generated code. Nobody does. All productivity gains are lost then.
I already stopped using Lutris for a while. Most of the things I try to install with it straight up don’t work anymore.
Edit:
Anyway, is there an alternative to Lutris, besides installing games and programs with Steam?
Bottles or Heoric Game Launcher
Heroic is great. Bottles has the potential to be great but it needs umu, and I’m skeptical about them rewriting the project (rewrites are seldom a good sign of a FOSS project in my experience).
They already re-written it, or did they say they’re going to re-write it?
wine bottles
How to drive off users and contributors in one easy step!
is lutris slop now
i can’t help but notice quite a lot of LLM generated commits, is lutris slop now or will
@strycoresee the error of their waysRegardless of your opinion on AI, it is not productive or helpful to open this as an issue.
shame is a powerful weapon
i for one intend to keep making people feel bad for using slop generators
But as you can see, the maintainer didn’t stop using them and will also now not disclose which commits have them. Humans are emotional creatures and part of being rational is acknowledging that. Folks can be critical of AI usage while phrasing the issue more tactfully and would likely see more success when doing so.
Naw dog
Well, it used to be at least
I had a donation to Lutris, and was already skeptical of the dev’s ability to maintain their huge (and very buggy) python/gtk3 codebase. Now I know that giving money to the dev would likely makes things bigger and buggier. This is useful information, and it’s better to talk about it somewhere where the dev will respond and relatively few bystanders will hear the discussion.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t ever raise this sort of thing as an issue (in general I think issues should only be for bugs, but the annoying reality is there’s rarely a better place for discussions that get visibility), I’m saying the specific content of the message is the problem. There are ways to critique the usage of AI and discuss alternatives that wouldn’t be an issue.
For example,
I see a lot of AI code is used in this repository. AI code is bad because (reasons the user believes it is bad here). Could you please share why/what AI is being used for specifically so we can try to remove the necessity?
Aside
I’m not saying AI code isn’t bad, I’m just saying different people think it’s bad for different reasons. The specific problem the reporter has with AI code may warrant a specific response.
Perhaps more maintainers are needed, maybe someone more familiar with third party libs being used could mentor, etc. From there it really depends on what the response from the maintainer is.
What’s not helpful and never going to get anyone to change their opinion is just saying things like “when will
@mentionsee the error of their ways”. As humans we respond to this by digging our heels in, which as seen in the issue the maintainer did by becoming less transparent about where AI is and is not used. Had the reporter taken a more diplomatic approach they would have been more likely to get the changes they wanted.It’s also such self entitlement, they were being open about it before but had to deal with childish people like this throwing a tantrum.
If its such an issue then thank them for being honest, don’t use it and move on, no ones entitled to free software though some act like it.
Not all llm use in code gen is bad, as long as its properly reviewed and disclosed. That’s not the same as vibe coding and having no idea about the output.
Yeah, that’s sort of my gripe with it. If you genuinely believe all AI code is bad (which is fine, not saying that’s a “wrong” opinion) maybe try to help the volunteers instead of just insulting them on an issue tracker.
Regardless of your opinion on AI, it is not productive or helpful to open this as an issue.
Disagree. It drew attention to the fact that the maintainers of lutris are of questionable character and helped people like me understand that lutris should be avoided completely.
As the maintainer said, the commits with AI code were already specified. See one here. It was never a secret.
He now removed the code authorship from Claude lmao
Hence the past tense. I think it was pretty petty to do this.
It was my impression that the AI stuff only started with a relatively recent update
Maybe, I don’t know much about this tool or their practices. I only meant that it was factual that they were mentioning which commits had AI generated code in them.
Lemmings being outraged is hilarious to me. We’re just gonna pretend the pre-LLM time period didn’t have people mindlessly copy paste code into all of our known projects? At least with LLMs you can keep asking questions/sources for each prompt response unlike in the past. In the past you’d just get rude remarks by someone who ultimately didn’t help you.
deleted by creator
That’s a weird way to run a community facing project, if you want to engage the community that is.
If you treat it like your own personal hobby, you can do whatever you like.
I had to google “Lutris” to remember what it was. I have it installed… I guess this post made me realize how little I use it and that I should uninstall the slop.
While it may become impossible to determine whether those digitized pixels are “real” or not, I sense that analog will be making a comeback in the not too distant future.
AI can run ~1000 times faster on analog hardware, so there’s probably a lot of research into it.
I tried Faugus for WoW and it ran like shit. I tried Lutris because it was pre-installed on Bazzite and wow was the performance better.
Based. Get those AI whiners out.
There must be a /s missing there. 😄
Not at all. LLM 's are very useful. Yes they can write slop but they can also automate a lot of arbitrary work away. The AI hate has become a bit of a cult refusing the see the things LLM’s are useful for and only focussing on its faults.
The dev even took the effort to mark the LLM made changes but that only resulted in arbitrary whining.
