I’m thinking about quitting.
I work with a forklift moving stuff between several warehouses. My manager doesn’t want me to do extra hours. Fine, then I want to go home exactly when my shift ends.
My shift ends at 5 pm. Before going home I need to take the forklift to a garage 10 minutes away and to recharge it. Then 5 minutes to walk back to the office where I clock out.
On my last shift, I received 2 assignments at 16:30, starting at 16:45 because trucks weren’t already there. Obviously, even doing just one of them means extra hours will be made.
I informed my manager sending her a message with our notoriously unreliable smartphones (issue for another day I already complained about). First I asked her if she wants me to log extra hours today. No, she said, then I told her if I have to do even just one of those assignments, extra hours will be logged in. Then she called me, accusing me of bothering her for the last 10 minutes and demanding to know where I was. I was already waiting for the trucks at 16:35, when she called me, but trucks were not there.
She then sent and deleted several other, smaller assignments at a rapid pace. As soon as I was starting one she would delete them. This happened 3 or 4 times.
She settled for a small one and even with this one I logged in 10 extra minutes, leaving my workplace at 5:10 pm.
What I want to tell her:
Are you aware you give me contradictory orders? If my shift ends at 17:00 and I need 15 minutes to take the forklift to the garage, if you give me an order at 16:45 I’m obviously going to do extra hours. You have clearly stated you don’t want to pay me any extra hour, which is fine by me, but then why do you keep me sending orders at exactly that hour? If you don’t want to pay me any extra hours my last assignment has to be finished at 16:45. Otherwise I’m logging in extra hours.
I don’t see how this can end well, but something has to be done. It’s not the first time she’s reacted so emotionally and I’m tired.
Before I quit I’d like to try and see if a rational conversation with her is possible. Then at least I tried.
I would rephrase it to:
Hey <manager>,
recently I have received orders to do <order 16:30> order16:45 which would have caused overtime. I thought about how I can smooth the assignment process in the future and here is a list of times that I need to finish orders:
- <How long it takes to take the forklift to the garage>
- <How long it takes to perform an order (described as accurately as possible)> If you feel like I am taking longer than I should please speak with <coworker> to verify that my timings are accurate. Also, keep in mind that sometimes unforeseen circumstances e.g. <insert circumstance> can delay my work.
Please let me know whether you need any additional information.
Best <OP>
This leaves enough open that you did not give reason for conflict imho and if she goes ballistic, answer politely but CC another manager or her manager stating that you are unsure how to respond given that your times were accurate and that you are working towards a solution.
IMO, talk to your manager’s manager about this.
A lot depends on where you are. Here in the UK (and most of Europe) there are very strong precedents about preparation time, including “pre-work meetings”, putting on PPE, tidying up, putting away. It’s all work. Unless you agree to do more (and are subsequently paid for that time, or exchange for time off in lieu), you don’t have to be on site before or after your contracted hours.
If you’re in the USA, I have no idea, other than you guys seem to have little protection.
At a non-legal, human perspective - she likely knows she’s giving your contradictory orders. That sounds like someone trying to make your life difficult and hoping you’ll quit. I’d talk to her manager if you can, or the boss if that’s feasible.
In my experience trying a rational conversation will not help. You are assuming she is acting from a rational place.
She wants you to clock out and finish the assignments off the clock. She will never say this. And may not even be willing to admit this to herself.
Or she just wants an excuse to be angry. She knows these are ridiculous and knows they will result in her anger but she likes that feeling.
As someone said, her boss would be the only option if you want to stay at the job - hoping that they also have problems with her and would be willing to step in.
This is a wild perspective that is probably true in cases of smaller companies or instructions directly from poor ownership and inexperienced managers.
Managers that allow or encourage people to work off the clock in most cases are putting themselves at risk. God forbid somebody get injured or contact the department of labor. Great way to lose your job.
Sounds to me like she’s been given an order to cut overtime, which is going around at so many companies recently, and she’s probably stressed because the situations that OP describe make that very difficult.
Makes sense that she was going through picking jobs and cancelling them while trying to find something that would fit the reduced timeframe. Ultimately sounds like that wasn’t possible. Unfortunately it also sounds like she is unable to effectively communicate this to her leadership or has already tried and been dismissed.
OP, I’d recommend trying to express to her that you understand she is trying to abide by the directives given to her, share with her that you are also, and see if you guys can work out a better plan. Maybe encourage her to share the issue with leadership if she hasn’t already. Might be smarter to not assign any jobs post 16:30 and just eat that half an hour if the people above her aren’t looking. Maybe less gets done, but then she’s not getting in trouble for OT. Unless she’s the owner, safe bet that her emotions stem from the emotions above her or fear of repercussions to her own employment. That or she is just inexperienced and hasn’t yet learned what all middle managers eventually do, it’s somebody else’s money
Years ago I was working second shift, 4pm - 1230am. My manager had a 2 hour commute and had to wake up at 7am to get his kid to school. He had to be last out by policy and did not want to stay late.
His policy was all your work was to be done by midnight. 12 to 1215 was to clean and organize your station. 1215-1230 was to degown(esd safe/clean room assembly space), get your stuff(lunch boxes, coats etc), use the bathroom, warm up your car and wait for 1230. He was out the door with the alarm set by 1235. If you were still in the building have fun talking to the police.
He would check and if you were still working at 1205 would come by and ask why you’re not done yet. It worked out extremely well.
if you are really thinking about quitting, then you should be frank and professional and make sure as shit you are using email to create some evidence as the the conversation. You should try CC’ing her boss if you don’t mind making them potentially more angry. If you have HR you could CC them. As for your email, I would phrase it in a more innocent sounding way: Boss, I would really like some clarity on what you have been asking me to do. I understand what you told me a few days ago, that you do not want me to work any extra hours, and I am fine with that if that is what is being asked of me. However, when I am assigned a new job at 16:45, this becomes impossible to complete safely or legally, along with my other duties, before clocking out at 17:00. It takes at least 15 minutes to return the forklift and return to the clock. I would really like to respect what you are asking of me, but it seems like the two things you are asking are contradictory. Last evening, you sent several jobs to me and then canceled them, and you sounded upset with me over the phone. If you could provide me with some clarity on which ask to prioritize (clocking out at 5pm or finishing jobs I have been assigned at the end of my shift) I will be sure to do whichever is asked of me.
edit: forgot to add: the point is to create some level of evidence either for an unemployment claim or wrongful termination claim. If they are asking you to break labor laws in email its an open and shut case for your as long as you save the emails
Take that shit above her head. Tell her boss that unpaid overtime is theft and you may have to take action outside the company if it continues. Be reasonable, offer solutions like: I can make you a list of my daily taks and how long they take so you dont over-budget time. But dont continue to engage your direct report, she is trying to show you your place and its time to show her’s
You wrote it down (what I want to tell her…). Copy-paste into an email. Or first in Copilot “make this sound as constructive as possible”. See below. By mail, you avoid emotional or other reactions. Also finish with a question to get a written answer. If she replies verbally, you can make an email of that, to make sure you understand well what was said.
I wanted to bring something to your attention regarding task timing at the end of my shift. My shift ends at 17:00, and I need about 15 minutes to bring the forklift back to the garage. When new assignments come in at 16:45, it becomes impossible to complete them without working overtime.
I understand and respect that you prefer not to authorize extra hours — that’s perfectly fine for me — but in that case, it would help if my last assignment can be finished no later than 16:45. Otherwise, I will inevitably need to log overtime to finish the tasks safely and properly.
I’m mentioning this so we can align expectations and avoid misunderstandings in the future. Can we agree on how we handle those end-of-day tasks so everything stays within expectations? Thank you for your understanding.
edit : the formatting doesn’t seem to work. removed it.