When I first found out it was an interesting concept that I was pretty neutral on but the more I engage/lurk with the community the more I enjoy it.
I generally don’t post/comment much on Reddit because I tend to be extremely sincere and that’s not always well received. Usually I don’t get much hate, but what I do get is a lot of non-interaction mixed with downvotes. And it’s just really discouraging when I’m just trying to share my thoughts.
But having no downvotes here is so nice because I’m not afraid that I’m going to get silenced into oblivion. Either people will actually engage with me (and maybe disagree, but in a meaningful way), or they’ll move on and not randomly share their disdain via downvoting.
It’s such a small change but makes a big difference. I bet a lot of people feel the same as me - it’s more comfortable to engage here.
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I unchecked the ‘Show Scores’ option in settings (desktop site) and I enjoy the experience a lot
feels like old school forums where people just communicated instead of all this useless gamification
Nice. I didn’t know about that option.
Edit: The setting is also avaliable on the jerboa android app and it is tied to your profile so it carried over which is convenient.
Man, do I miss a good forum.
I still have an account on a really great college football board that has taught me a TON about the most random things. All while being generally awesome people. Hoping at least some of this new (to many of us n00bs) world stays this way.
You’ve got a point. I was bothered with no downvotes until your post and it’s true, we are free to actually have open conversations here instead of be received with being downvoted. Cool!
haha not that you should care, but guess you can be downvoted via other instances.
You can’t - it’ll look like your downvote went through on your side, when you downvote from another instance, but it doesn’t actually show up for anyone else or change the comment score.
i didn’t downvote bro that was just what was there
if that were true he wouldn’t have 2 downvotes in the screenshot.
lol this is hilarious, I didn’t know that. Thanks for sharing :)
Hmm, I see that same post with zero downvotes presently and I’m on neither beehaw nor lemmy.world. I suspect that downvoting beehaw from a remote instance might be local to that specific instance, but I’m not certain.
I guess I’m the only one that misses downvotes. I don’t take offense to being downvoted - the points/karma is completely irrelevant and I feel like it helps keep unhelpful or irrelevant comments and content at the bottom and out of my feed.
Yeah, my concern is that the trolls will be just as visible as the recent comments, and that we’ll get overloaded with “take my upvote”, “this is the way”, and “nice” comments which are essentially spam
Presumably those wouldn’t be as upvoted so they wouldn’t sort with useful content but I do think someone might go on forever posting like that with a
0score where a-1might give them a moment of reflection.
I think it also fundamentally changes the conversation. Valid but “unpopular” comments can’t get buried in downvotes. The voting system on Reddit was based on a sane logic that totally neglected to consider how people actually behave… the idea of up and down votes to crowd-source relevance and quality of content makes sense, but all anyone did was use it as an agree / disagree button which broke the idea entirely.
How does it work if a user on another instance (that has downvotes enabled) downvotes comments on BeeHaw.org communities? Are they ignored? Can other instances see them?
Yes, I can see the downvotes on comments and posts. I’m registered to the lemmy.world instance
Edit: But not sure if I’m seeing downvotes from all instances or just mine?
At least on Jerboa it displays a notification saying that downvotes are disabled.
Well you’re a beehaw user. I’m not, and I can actually downvote things here. I’m just not sure if it actually effects anything.
Well you’re a beehaw user. I’m not, and I can actually downvote things here. I’m just not sure if it actually effects anything.
it does not, and if it looks like it does then that’s all on your end (presumably because whatever you’re using can’t quite parse the lack of downvotes and gets a bit confused) but doesn’t register on ours
As I was able to confirm, looks like anyone else on the same instance can see my downvotes. But not anyone on any other instance, even if they have downvotes too.
I mean, does it seem to change the vote numbers when you do it? Like, try downvoting my reply and we’ll see if it results in us both seeing a 0. :P
Just chiming in to remark how hilarious and wholesome these downvote comments are! =D
I’m still tickled hours later at how eager folks were to figure that out. :D
Downvoted… :)
I’m still seeing a 1 here. So, I think the downvote is literally just a placebo for you. :P
Hehe I think that’s awesome. :)
Downvoted from my instance and it’s a zero. No record of the other downvotes being tested here though. Maybe it’s humouring me with a fake downvote but not really transferring across to your post?
That’s what seems to be the case. So, it’s looking like it’s basically a placebo button for y’all. :P
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Downvoted for testing purposes, showing score Of 0 for this comment for me currently
I’m seeing a 1 on my end, so either things are lagging out for different users and I’m about to see a massive chunk hit…
Or it’s all localized. :P
Okay so I’ve confirmed it.
When downvoting content on an instance that doesn’t allow downvotes, you can see only the downvotes that come from other users on your instance. I can see two downvotes now, which happened just after I used a second account to downvote.
Downvoted as well. Looks like no since other people have also downvoted you and you’re still at 1
I’ll have to test- maybe other users on my instance can see my downvotes, but they won’t federate because BeeHaw rejects them. And therefore no other instance can see them.
Edit: Okay so I’ve confirmed it.
When downvoting content on an instance that doesn’t allow downvotes, you can see only the downvotes that come from other users on your instance. I can see two downvotes now, which happened just after I used a second account to downvote.
I am pleased for my role in performing science today. :D
Science is not that hard as people think :P Thank you my friend.
Sorry to crash your theory but I think I see your downvotes
I think you’re just seeing @serfraser@sopuli.xyz’s downvote, they’re on your same instance and commented below that they also downvoted.
I gave you a downvote, not to be mean but to test it. Can others see it?
So that is why a lot of down votes are used in this thread! It all makes sense now. I thought it was very weird because this is my first time seeing down votes on lemmy and there were so many everywhere. I got worried for nothing thankfully :D
I am on Beehaw and see a downvote count of zero when I long press on the vote count. I have been curious about how it works when people from other instances interact with Beehaw communities and others that don’t allow downvotes. I didn’t know if Beehaw still receives that external vote data through federation, tallies it, and hides it or if it was dropped entirely. I guess there’s also the possibility that votes are only registered to the local instance where a comment is viewed, but I hadn’t considered that.
I’m on lemmy.sdf.org and I currently see 18 upvotes, 0 downvotes on bdonvr’s comment.
Absolutely. Your only choices for not getting downvotes was to say something everyone will agree with, or cloak yourself in 1000 layers of sarcasm and jokes so no one can shut you down anyways.
And as I mentioned I am extremely sincere and don’t care for defensive irony. Not for me.
Always just stuck to the smaller, interest/specific topic focused subreddits as a result.
I’ve seen a lot of comments that were against the grain but still upvoted on reddit. I’m not saying they never downvote comments they don’t like but if you are getting downvoted consistently and without interactions it might be more than just being sincere.
I’m not saying that I got downvotes consistently. Just that it has happened for really innocuous reasons, and in general the threat of downvotes keeps me from engaging much at all.
I can understand how you might think that not knowing who I am, but I assure you I really do try to be genuinely nice and don’t court controversy (I haven’t the energy for it). It’s fine if you don’t believe that though, I’m just a random person on the internet.
That’s my experience too. Downvotes are not supposed to be for disagreeing but they are used like that since people can’t handle someone disagreeing. :)
And a tool that can be used by bots or people with multiple fake accounts to burry comments.
Yup 100%.
extremely sincere
Yea I totally relate to that. People don’t like heartfelt actual thought with emotion ime. A quirky one liner though? Upvote.
I tend to let it all out on these places, like a journal. I enjoy reading others entries too.
Exactly! I once posted about a particular TV show, and how it really helped me view my personal trauma in a different way and empowered me. A really long and emotional and sincere post. After around an hour I got scared and deleted it because I had 0 comments and like 15 downvotes. I just felt embarrassed for not sharing a meme or something and instead being earnest about it.
Yea I’d usually post something like that and just completely ignore my inbox and that thread…then delete just like you. I’m not ignoring my inbox here, even though I’m all over acting a fool as usual (:
My first inbox message on Reddit came after I made a supportive comment in response to a post on an abuse survivors subreddit and that message was so vile that I spent the whole 12 years not opening my inbox/replies page except maybe 3 or 4 times. I read posts in communities I liked and essentially shouted my comments out into the void, then ducked out to read the next comment/post.
Reddit had some great communities, but it also had lots of horrible communities that attracted all kinds of awful people to the site who goaded each other on. Subreddits were only ever as good as their individual moderation and policies since the site as a whole preferred promoting free speech over civility. I appreciate that my Lemmy server has a serious anti hate stance and a policy to defederate from servers that allow hate to flourish. I’ve been cautiously keeping up with my notifications here and actually reading my replies. I know trolls can still find ways to slip through the cracks sometimes, but it’s nice to know they aren’t actively courted and supported over here.
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The only reason I used the downvote on Reddit was if someone was being anti-social, such as racism or any other ism or just general jerkishness for no good reason. I haven’t seen any of that yet here. When I do I’ll call it out.
Reading the community manifesto it seems like we’re intended to be a “community” and if we disagree or find antisocial behavior we’re meant to talk to them about it, like a pastor pulling aside an angsty teenager to ask why they’re so on edge. Feels a bit like the distinction between prison vs reform-based incarceration, reform sounds nice but also feels so alien in our current system.
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I like the hackernews approach where downvotes on comments aren’t seen, the comments are just faded out. The more downvotes = the more invisible it is.
Also thought this could be a cool approach with nice side effects - https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2023/jun/social-media-trustdistrust-buttons-could-reduce-spread-misinformation
That sounds kinda awful to me, because it could be used to just disappear unpopular comments complaining of racism or transphobia or whatever, or even just to disappear a comment saying “I hated this really popular game actually because xyz”. It sounds like something that would exaggerate the hivemind effect of downvotes rather than alleviating it, and probably be used to silence even justifiably angry or emphatic comments, if now you can’t even see the few comments that disagreed with the majority in a thread.
That’s my same thought too, on Reddit you’re always scared of “saying the wrong thing” because your fake internet points will go down
Now we have infinite fake internet points.
can we even see how many points we have tho
We can even hide the fake internet points!
I like see my little piles of upvotes though. But maybe it’s bad because ultimately it means I’m giving importance to the external validation of strangers, and the flipside of that is being easily affected by downvotes too. It might be better to hide scores (in profile settings). But I also kinda don’t want to because it shows someone read my comment/post and I didn’t waste my time, even if nobody replies.
What’s funny is that I see that people down voted you for that comment.
I never cared about karma on reddit so I just said what I wanted and didn’t care. Here, so far, haven’t dealt with anyone just being randomly aggressive for no reason so, at least I hope, my comments have been fairly neutral.
omg i can troll now no downvotes omg nice!
I just downvoted you. But you can’t see it bwahahaha!!
i’m not on beehaw tho, i could see it, if it had federated correctly, but it seems it hasn’t cuz:
You can, but that doesn’t make it consequence free. You know that bans exist, especially for a more egregious trolls.
The good thing is the karma system is no longer here to torment you. You also won’t be shadowbanned for arbitrary reasons like on Reddit. I personally do prefer downvotes to use them against bad faith discourse or trolls (there was a user posting female scat pics on random communities in lemmy.world)
The lack of voting is why I still prefer forums over reddit-style sites. Voting, both up and down, stifles discussion and encourages repetative meme comments for upvotes.
I remember a reddit thread from years ago where a guy was trying to deal with a spider infestation in his car and almost every reply was a variation of “kill them with fire” or “it belongs to the spiders now”. Many comments were made by different people at the same time with the exact same wording. The guy got almost no serious replies. I don’t think that would have happened without the culture created by the voting system.
Dopamine is a hell of a drug.
I really dont like downvotes either. It’s better to upvote content you like.
yes, it’s one of the reason I choose beehaw when I registered
Yeah, but what do I do to get that little rush of self-satisfaction from down voting a comment I disagree with? /s
In all seriousness, it may require a little more diligence from community mods to police comments which violate beehaw community standards since they won’t fall to the bottom or be hidden as fast.
To be fair, the report feature exists and considering that they do the submissions so well, they’d probably be able to check it pretty often.
It’s kind of unrelated but I think the lack of downvotes pairs well with lemmy’s lack of vote counting (a.k.a karma score). Counting your internet points always feels so performative to me and kinda ruins the point of upvotes in the first place.
Yeah it’s the lack of vote counting, more than the lack of downvotes, that I really appreciate. (Not to say I really miss downvotes or anything, I just really don’t care either way.)
I’m also on Tildes and they also lack downvotes, but once you’ve been on there a week you get the ability to label things (noise, jokes, malice), which sort of functions as a more nuanced downvote button. But they share the lack of overall karma score, which keeps that same nice non-performative vibe.
once you’ve been on there a week you get the ability to label things (noise, jokes, malice), which sort of functions as a more nuanced downvote button.
I’m glad to see other platforms doing this, it worked pretty well on Slashdot for a while.
I think that will turn out to be really important in the long run. The gamification aspect of karma score let to posts and comments leaning more to the quick and funny, and less to long and thoughtful. Especially in bigger subreddits. And then bots started to just repost and reuse previous highly upvoted stuff to boost their numbers even further.
I’ve mentioned my thoughts on this a few times now, but you’ve summed my opinions up nicely! I tend toward longer, overly-drawn-out comments and replies, so it was kind of pointless for me to comment on stuff on Reddit. It went entirely against what was promoted by the culture on Reddit, which developed as a result of turning comments into a popularity contest. If you didn’t have a gimmick (ShittyMorph, poem_for_your_sprog, shittywatercolor, etc.) then you were basically stuck using jokes, references, and acerbic jabs to try to get attention (as evidenced by karma). Even downvote farmers fell into this pattern, they just did the opposite of what the typical person would do, which resulted in even more toxicity.
But can we downvote from other federated instances?
No. I try all the time and get “Downvotes Disabled”.
Weird seems to work on sh.itjust.works? Anyone else confirm?
I’m using Jerboa, and it’s returning the error. It could be that yours is displaying on your end but not actually doing anything on Beehaw’s side.
Also using Jerboa from sh.itjust.works and I have no error, and also see other downvotes
Using basic lemmy webapp, can downvote and view them
For me, the OP is showing 20 down votes, so I guess they are stored somewhere?
I feel the same. Although I started at beehaw and really liked the idea. I carried over to my own instance and it’s nice. I have a few times looked for the down vote and realized I wanted it because I disagreed with whatever the comment was. That’s silly… I use the upvote for thanking someone essentially at this point.
I’ve already seen (and reported) some anti-trans bigotry on here, but it had more upvotes than the posts calling it out for what it was because the bigotry was of the “polite and pretending to be well-researched” variety
without downvotes as a tool against crap like that, what have we got? is it against our instance’s “be nice” policy to tell nazi punks to fuck off?
I’ve seen a lot of toxic crap upvoted on reddit. Personally i prefer moderation over public vote any day.
Both options are non-ideal. Some mods are on a power trip and public opinion can vary wildly depending on the thread/community
The admins have taken a stance where this should be a safe space and those being insulted/harassed/discriminated against are welcome to respond in kind. The most important part is to report it so the mods/admins can review and take action as needed.
While it may not be nice to tell nazi punks to fuck off, it will ultimately make for a nicer community if they do - we don’t mind community members saying “hey, this isn’t cool” in whatever manner they feel necessary.
I’m glad that’s the case! it alleviates a lot of my worries around recommending beehaw to my LGBT+ friends
I’ve had similar worries, but overall I’m coming around to the idea that for cases of bigotry it’s better to just report the bigot and maybe also yell at them (which is allowed) than to put it to a public vote and hope that lands them at -200 downvotes or whatever. Not being able to downvote them stings a bit, but if they get reported and booted reliably, I think it’s worth the tradeoff.
Especially since reddit definitely had the same problem in a lot of cases anyway. Sometimes, in some subreddits, transphobia would be downvoted. But in others, the “”“polite”“” or even blatantly not “polite” transphobia would be upvoted. Sometimes even in places where I didn’t expect it.
(looking at you, gaming subreddits mad about some trans people asking you not to buy a wizard game, jesus. That ~2 weeks was hell on the internet. And meanwhile, posts calling for people not to pre-order games, or to boycott games that have microtransactions - those are acceptable and go right to the top, apparently! Ugh.)
I highly recommend reviewing this post from Gaywallet: https://beehaw.org/post/107014. Specifically, the Spirit of Beehaw and What is (and isn’t) Beehaw. These sections go into what I paraphrased above at length, if you want the admin’s full thoughts.
without downvotes as a tool against crap like that, what have we got? is it against our instance’s “be nice” policy to tell nazi punks to fuck off?
nope! we’re not going to ban for telling a TERF or nazi to eat shit or whatever. we as admins do try to be nice where possible, but you as a user really aren’t obligated to be because that’s dumb lol. you can also report it to us and in general we dispatch users who are like that as possible (although sidenote: if it’s a post off-instance and you report it, unless the user is really, really bad we probably won’t do anything immediately because we just can’t keep an eye on every possible bad actor.)
That’s nice to see. When I first saw the policy of having no downvotes, I wondered if that would leave no recourse against trolls and scumbags, but I guess strong moderation is the key.
I probably wouldn’t want the entire internet to be so strongly moderated, but I’m really glad there are some popular places that are. Thanks for doing that.
Thanks for clarifying!
I’ve been super impressed by moderation so far. This morning I saw a post justifying sexism because of Bible verses and by the time I’d mustered a reply it was gone, to my delight.
