Arafat rejected several two state peace deals he was offered. Abbas never answered to Olmert‘s offer. Granted these weren’t optimal, but a lot better than what the Palestinians ended up with now.
People like you still defend Arafat‘s rejectionism, which directly lead to the horrific consequences we see today. Griping about not full sovereignty, air space, etc. totally disregards the daily lives of actual Palestinians. Lots of people live good lives in „less than a full state“: Puerto Rico and Greenland for example.
After rejecting peace deals, Arafat launched the second Intifada. This was far more violent than the first. Arafat thought it would improve his negotiation position, but it had the opposite effect. It lead to Israel no longer seeing the PLO as a serious partner for peace.
If you want to further back in history, there were proposed peace deals in the form the UN partition plan 1947, Israeli peace offers in 1948 and 1967. See the three Noes from Karthoum (no recognition, no negotiation, no peace with Israel).
The PLO went the path of negotiations after they had repeatedly lost their violent attempts at seizing power in Jordan (black September) and Lebanon (civil war). They were at the lowest of their power in exile in Tunisia, when they started their diplomatic attempts. As soon as they had some real power in area A in Palestine, they went back to violence.
A shitty peace deal in 2000 would have been better for Palestinians, than what they got instead. Arafat and Abu Mazen made historic mistakes and now Palestinians are paying the price.
they will NEVER negotiate any peace deal that gives Palestinians their land, or gives them any real measure of power.
The only choice is to fight and die, or simply die.
How casually you advocate for pointless deaths of Palestinians as inevitable is frankly disgusting.
Griping about not full sovereignty, air space, etc. totally disregards the daily lives of actual Palestinians.
You can’t live a ‘good life’ as a less than full state when your neighbor is Israel. We’ve got >30 years of history showing us what Israel does when Palestine is less than a full state, e.g., the West Bank, and the illegal Israeli settlers that burn out and kill Palestinians to run them off their land.
How casually you advocate for pointless deaths of Palestinians as inevitable is frankly disgusting.
I’m not advocating for it; I’m stating that pointless deaths of Palestinians are inevitable, unless and until the rest of the world turns Israel into an international pariah. We did it with South Africa; there’s no reason we can’t do it to Israel.
Israel has kept the peace with Jordan and Egypt and respected the borders.
Since Hamas came to powering Gaza, Palestinians had deeply divided political leadership. There hasn’t been peace among Palestinians for decades now.
South Africa was a very different situation. The ANC had different demands and acted very differently from Palestinian organizations as well. External pressure on South Africa helped. However the essential part was the white minority government believing the ANC, that there won’t be reprisals after a transition of power.
Hoping for Israel to become an international pariah is one thing. North Korea does just fine as an international pariah for example. Israel as a pariah would turn into an authoritarian religious regime, that would simply expel all Palestinians from the whole land. Israel would become just another brutal authoritarian regime like many in the region.
Arafat rejected several two state peace deals he was offered. Abbas never answered to Olmert‘s offer. Granted these weren’t optimal, but a lot better than what the Palestinians ended up with now.
People like you still defend Arafat‘s rejectionism, which directly lead to the horrific consequences we see today. Griping about not full sovereignty, air space, etc. totally disregards the daily lives of actual Palestinians. Lots of people live good lives in „less than a full state“: Puerto Rico and Greenland for example.
Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan tells the story of Arafat‘s rejection from an insider’s perspective really well.
After rejecting peace deals, Arafat launched the second Intifada. This was far more violent than the first. Arafat thought it would improve his negotiation position, but it had the opposite effect. It lead to Israel no longer seeing the PLO as a serious partner for peace.
If you want to further back in history, there were proposed peace deals in the form the UN partition plan 1947, Israeli peace offers in 1948 and 1967. See the three Noes from Karthoum (no recognition, no negotiation, no peace with Israel).
The PLO went the path of negotiations after they had repeatedly lost their violent attempts at seizing power in Jordan (black September) and Lebanon (civil war). They were at the lowest of their power in exile in Tunisia, when they started their diplomatic attempts. As soon as they had some real power in area A in Palestine, they went back to violence.
A shitty peace deal in 2000 would have been better for Palestinians, than what they got instead. Arafat and Abu Mazen made historic mistakes and now Palestinians are paying the price.
How casually you advocate for pointless deaths of Palestinians as inevitable is frankly disgusting.
You can’t live a ‘good life’ as a less than full state when your neighbor is Israel. We’ve got >30 years of history showing us what Israel does when Palestine is less than a full state, e.g., the West Bank, and the illegal Israeli settlers that burn out and kill Palestinians to run them off their land.
I’m not advocating for it; I’m stating that pointless deaths of Palestinians are inevitable, unless and until the rest of the world turns Israel into an international pariah. We did it with South Africa; there’s no reason we can’t do it to Israel.
Israel has kept the peace with Jordan and Egypt and respected the borders.
Since Hamas came to powering Gaza, Palestinians had deeply divided political leadership. There hasn’t been peace among Palestinians for decades now.
South Africa was a very different situation. The ANC had different demands and acted very differently from Palestinian organizations as well. External pressure on South Africa helped. However the essential part was the white minority government believing the ANC, that there won’t be reprisals after a transition of power.
Hoping for Israel to become an international pariah is one thing. North Korea does just fine as an international pariah for example. Israel as a pariah would turn into an authoritarian religious regime, that would simply expel all Palestinians from the whole land. Israel would become just another brutal authoritarian regime like many in the region.
Unfortunately, that’s looking like it may happen anyway.