Back in September, I had dinner at my friend Stephen Webb’s house with his mother, Sharon Webb, who is a deaconess at the Friendship United Methodist Church. She mentioned that communist nations value propaganda slogans and suggested that I take one from the country to display in her church as a trophy. She then continued, knowing that I was desperate to get a car for transportation between home and university every day. She offered me a used car and $10,000 if I succeeded. She also said that if I were detained and unable to return, her church would pay my mother $200,000 as a generous contribution, which I intended to use for my siblings’ college tuition—though this would still be $200,000 short of the total $400,000 needed.
A car and $10k for a sign? Even if you buy that the church encouraged this and had money to burn, that’s a lot for something that amounts to “huh, that’s neat.”
The thing is it sounds completely impossible but then you look into who these organizations are and what they do and you come out thinking you will never doubt the DPRK ever again lol.
I don’t think they necessarily had any intent on paying out the money, but if they did 10k is peanuts for this kind of organization. We can say it’s just a sign all we want but Otto went on a restricted floor to find it. He could have probably bought a souvenir poster in a store if he wanted to, but he didn’t.
is carefully rehearsed
Yes, but that’s how press statements are. Everyone rehearses them and reads from a script they just pretend they don’t.
This is stuff we more or less easily accept when it happens elsewhere but as soon as it happens in the DPRK everyone instantly becomes a sleuth. As if things that happen in the DPRK are naturally more mysterious because the forest spirits are stronger there or something.
The initial statement someone gives to the press is often rehearsed, but answers to questions from the media usually aren’t. A media-trained person might come off as poised or pivoting to some talking points, but that’s very different from what appears to be a fully-scriped answer.
That’s what’s weird here – a big chunk of money supposedly offered for something that would rate basically zero news coverage, and that is of zero substantive use.
A car and $10k for a sign? Even if you buy that the church encouraged this and had money to burn, that’s a lot for something that amounts to “huh, that’s neat.”
I mean, as far as I understand, the story is that’s what he was told, which motivated him to do it given the money he/family needed. Not that he ever got such a payout. Could easily be the church person lied to get him to do it and had never intended to pay out anything.
It’s possible, it just sounds incredibly far fetched. And with the press conference being obviously rehearsed… there’s no reason to believe this story.
I don’t get what’s far-fetched about it. We’re talking about the same country (the US) whose FBI has done stuff like this: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/fbi-entrapment (Going to great lengths to get someone to commit a crime, so they can arrest them for it)
Obviously that’s not exactly the same thing we’re talking about, since in this case it’d be wanting to get a result to the US’s benefit, not one they’d personally want to arrest the person for, but there’s even an example of offering someone money in that same article, through an informant. We know that the US has done coups and terrorism across the world. We know it’s done absolutely out there stuff like project MKUltra. And this one isn’t even that wild. Why is any of this a stretch?
it’d be wanting to get a result to the US’s benefit
How? A sign from the DPRK has zero value beyond “oh that’s kind of neat.” Coups and terrorism have meaningful end goals, not “look at this weird sign I have.”
A bungling young adult and a story they can use to vilify the DPRK. And if he actually succeeds? Someone they can escalate with, trying to get him to do more and more. Frats sometimes do hazing type things that are of a similar nature (“steal such and such from so and so”) and they aren’t even that serious as orgs go. I’m genuinely confused as to why it’s so out there to you.
They don’t need a one millionth story like this, and successfully stealing a sign doesn’t give them one, anyway. It’s a sign, not a state secret.
You’re right that stealing a sign is basically a frat prank, and no one gives you a car or $10k for one of those. Say this happened in the U.S., and some frat bro got busted for stealing a sign from a post office or whatever – would “I was actually offered $10k and a car to do this” strike you as a likely story?
Then there’s the question of if you’re already paying the guy for a story, why not just have him make one up? South Korean media already does this with defectors – no proof is needed because there’s zero scrutiny in most media.
and successfully stealing a sign doesn’t give them one, anyway.
I didn’t say it does. Reread what I wrote.
In any case, if you’re going to overthink this so hard, at least apply some of it to the other end. Why would the DPRK go to great lengths to “coach” him on… what exactly are you implying? A needlessly complex story, when they could coach him with a much simpler one? And to what end? What exactly would they gain by putting so much energy into such a story? Contrary to how the west acts, the world does not actually revolve around it and the DPRK has matters of its own people to attend to.
Say this happened in the U.S., and some frat bro got busted for stealing a sign from a post office or whatever – would “I was actually offered $10k and a car to do this” strike you as a likely story?
Yes, actually. People lie sometimes. I don’t get how you can understand more generally than people can lie, but find it sooo hard to believe someone could do so to a young adult with a false offer. Genuinely being given $10k and a car would be harder to believe, but still possible if coming from an org that has a lot of money; however, at that point, I’d assume the point is to get them on the hook mafia style (which is not out of the realm of possibility for how US interests operate, at all).
“This doesn’t pass the sniff test” isn’t overthinking, it’s applying the minimum level of skepticism that should be applied to every story.
As for what really happened: I don’t know, but it’s also an assumption that the DPRK is who fabricated this story. Maybe Warmbier did, the DPRK had no way to disprove it, so they had him state it for the public. A college kid making a mistake and coming up with a dumb lie is probably the simplest explanation.
it’s obviously an entry level mission for the CIA
they do this bullshit all the time. if you pay attention to Russia’s claims regarding Ukraine FSB (CIA) funded terrost incidents. They often get civilians to do pointless shit (for $$$), and if they succeed, the next “quest” they get is like putting a package at a certain location except hey, this time the package is a bomb.
The CIA does not give missions under the alias of CIA. They have an incredible amount of front companies and organizations including cults, NGOs, billionaire moguls, foundations of all sorts, and even government organizations like USAID.
A lot of this is really hard to believe:
A car and $10k for a sign? Even if you buy that the church encouraged this and had money to burn, that’s a lot for something that amounts to “huh, that’s neat.”
The thing is it sounds completely impossible but then you look into who these organizations are and what they do and you come out thinking you will never doubt the DPRK ever again lol.
The CIA is an evil organization that has done all sorts of wild shit, but that doesn’t mean every weird accusation directed at them is true.
why is the accusation weird?
Why would anyone pay $10k (and a car) for a sign?
What are the odds one of the few people willing to pay $10k for a sign would also just happen to have a kid who has a friend who’s going to the DPRK?
Why would I believe a far-fetched story that (if you watch the video) is carefully rehearsed (along with the answers to follow up questions)?
I have no idea what actually happened here, but this does not remotely pass the sniff test.
I don’t think they necessarily had any intent on paying out the money, but if they did 10k is peanuts for this kind of organization. We can say it’s just a sign all we want but Otto went on a restricted floor to find it. He could have probably bought a souvenir poster in a store if he wanted to, but he didn’t.
Yes, but that’s how press statements are. Everyone rehearses them and reads from a script they just pretend they don’t.
This is stuff we more or less easily accept when it happens elsewhere but as soon as it happens in the DPRK everyone instantly becomes a sleuth. As if things that happen in the DPRK are naturally more mysterious because the forest spirits are stronger there or something.
The initial statement someone gives to the press is often rehearsed, but answers to questions from the media usually aren’t. A media-trained person might come off as poised or pivoting to some talking points, but that’s very different from what appears to be a fully-scriped answer.
10k is a small price to pay for an international propaganda win. Upper-class USonians spend less than that on re-roofing their house every few years.
An international propaganda win? It’s a sign!
That’s what’s weird here – a big chunk of money supposedly offered for something that would rate basically zero news coverage, and that is of zero substantive use.
Otto warmbier was an international story, and they did spin it into an anti-DPRK story. We wouldn’t know his name if it wasn’t.
Warmbier was never paid for his attempt because he died obviously, but if the money was a motivating factor, then it succeeded.
I mean, as far as I understand, the story is that’s what he was told, which motivated him to do it given the money he/family needed. Not that he ever got such a payout. Could easily be the church person lied to get him to do it and had never intended to pay out anything.
It’s possible, it just sounds incredibly far fetched. And with the press conference being obviously rehearsed… there’s no reason to believe this story.
I don’t get what’s far-fetched about it. We’re talking about the same country (the US) whose FBI has done stuff like this: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/fbi-entrapment (Going to great lengths to get someone to commit a crime, so they can arrest them for it)
Obviously that’s not exactly the same thing we’re talking about, since in this case it’d be wanting to get a result to the US’s benefit, not one they’d personally want to arrest the person for, but there’s even an example of offering someone money in that same article, through an informant. We know that the US has done coups and terrorism across the world. We know it’s done absolutely out there stuff like project MKUltra. And this one isn’t even that wild. Why is any of this a stretch?
How? A sign from the DPRK has zero value beyond “oh that’s kind of neat.” Coups and terrorism have meaningful end goals, not “look at this weird sign I have.”
A bungling young adult and a story they can use to vilify the DPRK. And if he actually succeeds? Someone they can escalate with, trying to get him to do more and more. Frats sometimes do hazing type things that are of a similar nature (“steal such and such from so and so”) and they aren’t even that serious as orgs go. I’m genuinely confused as to why it’s so out there to you.
They don’t need a one millionth story like this, and successfully stealing a sign doesn’t give them one, anyway. It’s a sign, not a state secret.
You’re right that stealing a sign is basically a frat prank, and no one gives you a car or $10k for one of those. Say this happened in the U.S., and some frat bro got busted for stealing a sign from a post office or whatever – would “I was actually offered $10k and a car to do this” strike you as a likely story?
Then there’s the question of if you’re already paying the guy for a story, why not just have him make one up? South Korean media already does this with defectors – no proof is needed because there’s zero scrutiny in most media.
I didn’t say it does. Reread what I wrote.
In any case, if you’re going to overthink this so hard, at least apply some of it to the other end. Why would the DPRK go to great lengths to “coach” him on… what exactly are you implying? A needlessly complex story, when they could coach him with a much simpler one? And to what end? What exactly would they gain by putting so much energy into such a story? Contrary to how the west acts, the world does not actually revolve around it and the DPRK has matters of its own people to attend to.
Yes, actually. People lie sometimes. I don’t get how you can understand more generally than people can lie, but find it sooo hard to believe someone could do so to a young adult with a false offer. Genuinely being given $10k and a car would be harder to believe, but still possible if coming from an org that has a lot of money; however, at that point, I’d assume the point is to get them on the hook mafia style (which is not out of the realm of possibility for how US interests operate, at all).
“This doesn’t pass the sniff test” isn’t overthinking, it’s applying the minimum level of skepticism that should be applied to every story.
As for what really happened: I don’t know, but it’s also an assumption that the DPRK is who fabricated this story. Maybe Warmbier did, the DPRK had no way to disprove it, so they had him state it for the public. A college kid making a mistake and coming up with a dumb lie is probably the simplest explanation.
it’s obviously an entry level mission for the CIA
they do this bullshit all the time. if you pay attention to Russia’s claims regarding Ukraine FSB (CIA) funded terrost incidents. They often get civilians to do pointless shit (for $$$), and if they succeed, the next “quest” they get is like putting a package at a certain location except hey, this time the package is a bomb.
The CIA does not give missions under the alias of CIA. They have an incredible amount of front companies and organizations including cults, NGOs, billionaire moguls, foundations of all sorts, and even government organizations like USAID.