Not in my job, negotiation happens on hire only and I started with zero knowledge like most of us, my brain is just wired for the kind of tasks we do so I more do stuff people with more experience wouldn’t be able to do and until I get a promotion it just means I end up working harder for the same wage as my colleagues when I could be doing the same tasks as them which I have an easier time with 🤷
I haven’t worked a union job, so I know nothing about this. But a family friend always rails on unions and how they do more harm than good, citing these kinds of situations. I generally like the idea of unions because I’ve seen how companies abuse employees without them. So I’m torn.
Can you explain to me how the union prevents you from getting promoted/a raise? I’m specifically curious about how the mechanics of it work
Broadly speaking (in my personal experience) especially in very large organisations with a union presence employees you usually see salary grades or employee classifications which assign a pay grade. Those jobs in turn come with minimum expectations that you have to meet to fulfil your obligations to collect your base wage.
You can go above and beyond, take on the harder jobs and put your hand up for unpaid positions (union rep, health and safety officer, first aid, fire warden, etc) those roles dont carry a financial benefit and most of the time dont impose a significant time penalty (many workplaces have to accommodate your time away from regular duties) but they are also voluntary.
The thing is, try climbing the ladder internally without taking on any of those roles. They expose you to the inner workings of the business, the metrics, management speak and a measure of exposure to higher management so when an actual position up the ladder does come up anyone else has to compete with the guy who is already on a first name basis with the area manager because of that thing 3 months ago. Someone who has demonstrated that they want it not someone who just applied because there was a vacancy.
People who are non union and free to negotiate their own salary (again, this is just my experience) are often in jobs where the big boss can walk in say "Jim, unfortunately we have to let you go. Heres a glowing letter of recommendation, 6 months salary in leiu of notice and this lovely man from security will be escorting you out in 30 minutes, please pack up your desk.
It doesn’t prevent me getting a promotion, there’s no open positions is all, so I sometimes take people’s positions while they’re on leave in the meantime (so I know they want to promote me ASAP and it gives me a better pay for a few weeks at a time).
As for negotiating a salary, it’s just part of the terms and conditions where I work, starting employees at a higher salary needs to be justified and after employment there’s no provision in place for accelerated pay step increases or anything of the sort and there’s rules in place regarding salary calculation when getting promoted.
The real issue (and our managers agree with that) is that we’re missing a position between where I’m at now and the next position which is a support role for my position. They need to add an “advanced” version of my position either with the same pay rates as the people in support positions or move them one rank up as well.
But the higher ups would never be able to justify it financially and they already have a hard to determining who’s ready to move from the “trainee” position to the “regular” position 🤷
You can always negotiate for a higher group ahead of time, or boni, additional benefits, etc.
Not in my job, negotiation happens on hire only and I started with zero knowledge like most of us, my brain is just wired for the kind of tasks we do so I more do stuff people with more experience wouldn’t be able to do and until I get a promotion it just means I end up working harder for the same wage as my colleagues when I could be doing the same tasks as them which I have an easier time with 🤷
I haven’t worked a union job, so I know nothing about this. But a family friend always rails on unions and how they do more harm than good, citing these kinds of situations. I generally like the idea of unions because I’ve seen how companies abuse employees without them. So I’m torn.
Can you explain to me how the union prevents you from getting promoted/a raise? I’m specifically curious about how the mechanics of it work
Broadly speaking (in my personal experience) especially in very large organisations with a union presence employees you usually see salary grades or employee classifications which assign a pay grade. Those jobs in turn come with minimum expectations that you have to meet to fulfil your obligations to collect your base wage.
You can go above and beyond, take on the harder jobs and put your hand up for unpaid positions (union rep, health and safety officer, first aid, fire warden, etc) those roles dont carry a financial benefit and most of the time dont impose a significant time penalty (many workplaces have to accommodate your time away from regular duties) but they are also voluntary.
The thing is, try climbing the ladder internally without taking on any of those roles. They expose you to the inner workings of the business, the metrics, management speak and a measure of exposure to higher management so when an actual position up the ladder does come up anyone else has to compete with the guy who is already on a first name basis with the area manager because of that thing 3 months ago. Someone who has demonstrated that they want it not someone who just applied because there was a vacancy.
People who are non union and free to negotiate their own salary (again, this is just my experience) are often in jobs where the big boss can walk in say "Jim, unfortunately we have to let you go. Heres a glowing letter of recommendation, 6 months salary in leiu of notice and this lovely man from security will be escorting you out in 30 minutes, please pack up your desk.
It doesn’t prevent me getting a promotion, there’s no open positions is all, so I sometimes take people’s positions while they’re on leave in the meantime (so I know they want to promote me ASAP and it gives me a better pay for a few weeks at a time).
As for negotiating a salary, it’s just part of the terms and conditions where I work, starting employees at a higher salary needs to be justified and after employment there’s no provision in place for accelerated pay step increases or anything of the sort and there’s rules in place regarding salary calculation when getting promoted.
The real issue (and our managers agree with that) is that we’re missing a position between where I’m at now and the next position which is a support role for my position. They need to add an “advanced” version of my position either with the same pay rates as the people in support positions or move them one rank up as well.
But the higher ups would never be able to justify it financially and they already have a hard to determining who’s ready to move from the “trainee” position to the “regular” position 🤷