Yeah, why don’t the Palestinians give up and just accept being ethnically cleansed? I mean, they’re Arabs why don’t they just move in with the other Arabs, they’re all one big homogeneous group, right?
And if they are not let back in who will hold Israel accountable? Many of the people being bombed refuse to leave their homes for this very reason (as well as the south getting targeted by bombs/no shelter/no supplies either way so might as well keep whatever semblance of dignity they have left). They don’t trust Israel to allow them to return home due to historical precedent.
Tell that to the people that refuse to leave their house due to what I previously described. The last election in Gaza was in 2006. The average resident of Gaza was about 1 year old at the time. This conflict did not start yesterday. The Gazan population does not trust the international community to protect their right to return and they sure don’t trust the Israelis.
It would be mathematically impossible for them to have elected Hamas since 50% of them are 18 and younger, and the last election was held over 17 years ago.
And the reason the last election was held so long ago was that after Hamas won elections in Gaza, the west supported a coup that failed and entrenched Hamas in power.
I think at this point, the genocide is in progress. Like the caregivers in this article, what we’re discussing is triage.
I think it’s unconscionable to evacuate the Gaza strip, because we all know that the intention is to never allow the refugees to return. But I would like the Palestinians of Gaza to have the option to choose whether to survive in exile or die in their homes.
I believe that the Palestinian identity can survive in a diaspora. But that’s all academic. These people deserve the option to escape, even regardless of what it means for the future of their ethnic group. It’s a painful choice, but it should be there’s.
If some decide to stay, what happens to them? Does the world condemn them to death because it’s too problematic to deal with? Does the world force them at gunpoint? Israel has the power to stop this, it’s the easier path.
It’s 2.2 million people. It’s a logistical nightmare. Any country/countries that take them in will have a drain on their resources. They will need aid. Or, just spitballing here, Israel could just stop.
If it was any other country your argument would be substantive. But we are talking about Israel and Palestine. Anyone who leaves will not be able to return. That’s how it’s always been. And for the Palestinians, their land is their existence. They will not give it up. They know the second they leave, it’s been lost.
Funny thing - Israel did exactly what you’re suggesting. They told Gazans to flee to Egypt via the Rafah Crossing, then Israel bombed the Rafah Crossing.
Uhm, in the article you linked there is only Hamas claiming there were bombings on Rafah Crossing. It doesn’t have any proof or source that is showing the bombings did indeed happen.
@rivermonster most of them are not vocal about it right now. Many of them have normalised relations with Israel in the last few years.
They also hold the belief that allowing Israel to chase all the Palestinians out of Palestine and grab the land would be the end of the Two State Solution, turning the latter into permanent refugees.
In practical terms given Israel’s blockades the only country in a position to take them is Egypt.
Egypt already hosts 9 million refugees, taking another 2 million would be politically unpopular with voters.
Egypt is also afraid of ending up in a border war with Israel (which would happen if any of the new refugees attacked Israel).
@rivermonster I always wonder whether people who want “Arab nations” to take in more refugees are also petitioning their own representatives to take in more themselves.
Pretty much all the biggest refugee-hosting nations are poorer nations.
@rivermonster yeah that’s getting really bad lately.
I’m in New Zealand and I want more refugees from everywhere, including Palestine. It’s frustrating.
Turns out Children of Men is the most prophetic sci fi.
@rivermonster to be fair to the US it didn’t actually sign the UN convention on refugees that the rest of the West signed. But I still share your frustration.
I wish we could all work together on this stuff. Instead we have had some shining examples recently of how countries who do take people from warzones get left to take a huge hit, like poor Bangladesh struggling alone to administer Coxs Bazar (the biggest refugee camp in the world, now home to the Rohingya), or the Kurds who bizarrely were left trying to feed and shelter surrendered ISIS fighters from all over the world.
Realistically a governments first responsibility before anything else is the physical safety of it’s citizenship.
If you know a percentage of a population are religious extremists which will never integrate into your society and will probably pose a risk, then how can you, as a government, take them in?
If that’s the attitude of everyone the whole world will be colonized and subjugated by imperialists. There will be a point where you cannot run anymore. Let me ask you a question, what would you do if this happened to you?
Jordan won’t take them because the Palestinians assassinated their king, created a civil war in Jordan, and tried to assassinate their next king.
Lebanon won’t take them because they keep joining Hezbollah.
Egypt won’t take them because they keep joining up with Muslim Brotherhood and trying to destabilize the government.
Syria won’t take them because they’re in the middle of a civil war.
Iran won’t take them because they’re more useful as a tool to destabilize Israel.
Because the neighboring countries did that in the past in various forms and it fucked them all up in some manner. These are not normal people. They’re twisted by decades of living under war or terrorist rule. Their population is so young because everyone old died that half the people alive never actually experienced a stable life. They know nothing but this. As a result they are really hard to integrate.
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Yeah, why don’t the Palestinians give up and just accept being ethnically cleansed? I mean, they’re Arabs why don’t they just move in with the other Arabs, they’re all one big homogeneous group, right?
Somewhat ironically, the biggest impediment is Hamas mission to genocide the Jews.
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And if they are not let back in who will hold Israel accountable? Many of the people being bombed refuse to leave their homes for this very reason (as well as the south getting targeted by bombs/no shelter/no supplies either way so might as well keep whatever semblance of dignity they have left). They don’t trust Israel to allow them to return home due to historical precedent.
Those who don’t want to leave can stay, others shouldn’t be forced to become meat shields in a war they didn’t want.
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Tell that to the people that refuse to leave their house due to what I previously described. The last election in Gaza was in 2006. The average resident of Gaza was about 1 year old at the time. This conflict did not start yesterday. The Gazan population does not trust the international community to protect their right to return and they sure don’t trust the Israelis.
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You can’t carpet bomb civilians then blame a country for not accepting 2 million refugees. Leveling the sector with air strikes is not a requirement.
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Right now, civilians don’t have a choice to leave the warzone. That’s intentional thaks to
Hamas, Netanyahu,Egypt, Jordan, etc.Ftfy
Because they shouldn’t have to leave their homes.
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It would be mathematically impossible for them to have elected Hamas since 50% of them are 18 and younger, and the last election was held over 17 years ago.
And the reason the last election was held so long ago was that after Hamas won elections in Gaza, the west supported a coup that failed and entrenched Hamas in power.
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You do realize this is advocating for genocide - the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.
I think at this point, the genocide is in progress. Like the caregivers in this article, what we’re discussing is triage.
I think it’s unconscionable to evacuate the Gaza strip, because we all know that the intention is to never allow the refugees to return. But I would like the Palestinians of Gaza to have the option to choose whether to survive in exile or die in their homes.
I believe that the Palestinian identity can survive in a diaspora. But that’s all academic. These people deserve the option to escape, even regardless of what it means for the future of their ethnic group. It’s a painful choice, but it should be there’s.
If some decide to stay, what happens to them? Does the world condemn them to death because it’s too problematic to deal with? Does the world force them at gunpoint? Israel has the power to stop this, it’s the easier path.
Oh wow, how magnanimous of you.
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It’s 2.2 million people. It’s a logistical nightmare. Any country/countries that take them in will have a drain on their resources. They will need aid. Or, just spitballing here, Israel could just stop.
And that should happen with them until Israel listens to reason and stops? Because if they stay in Gaza more will die.
It’s 2.2m or 2.3m people. Remember Syria? That was 5 millions leaving the country so cut the crap about it being impossible.
If it was any other country your argument would be substantive. But we are talking about Israel and Palestine. Anyone who leaves will not be able to return. That’s how it’s always been. And for the Palestinians, their land is their existence. They will not give it up. They know the second they leave, it’s been lost.
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Funny thing - Israel did exactly what you’re suggesting. They told Gazans to flee to Egypt via the Rafah Crossing, then Israel bombed the Rafah Crossing.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-to-bomb-rafah-crossing-to-egypt-after-telling-gazans-to-flee-through-it/
Uhm, in the article you linked there is only Hamas claiming there were bombings on Rafah Crossing. It doesn’t have any proof or source that is showing the bombings did indeed happen.
Civilians taking refuge away from a warzone is how the Jewish Diaspora began.
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At least I’m not arguing in favor of the warzone.
@rivermonster most of them are not vocal about it right now. Many of them have normalised relations with Israel in the last few years.
They also hold the belief that allowing Israel to chase all the Palestinians out of Palestine and grab the land would be the end of the Two State Solution, turning the latter into permanent refugees.
In practical terms given Israel’s blockades the only country in a position to take them is Egypt.
Egypt already hosts 9 million refugees, taking another 2 million would be politically unpopular with voters.
Egypt is also afraid of ending up in a border war with Israel (which would happen if any of the new refugees attacked Israel).
Egypt also wants the Two State Solution
Here is an article that might interest you: Why Egypt Won’t Open The Border To Its Palestinian Neighbours
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@rivermonster I always wonder whether people who want “Arab nations” to take in more refugees are also petitioning their own representatives to take in more themselves.
Pretty much all the biggest refugee-hosting nations are poorer nations.
Nevertheless, this article might give you food for thought: The Growing Significance Of Malaysia and Indonesia’s Non-recognition of Israel.
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@rivermonster yeah that’s getting really bad lately.
I’m in New Zealand and I want more refugees from everywhere, including Palestine. It’s frustrating.
Turns out Children of Men is the most prophetic sci fi.
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@rivermonster to be fair to the US it didn’t actually sign the UN convention on refugees that the rest of the West signed. But I still share your frustration.
I wish we could all work together on this stuff. Instead we have had some shining examples recently of how countries who do take people from warzones get left to take a huge hit, like poor Bangladesh struggling alone to administer Coxs Bazar (the biggest refugee camp in the world, now home to the Rohingya), or the Kurds who bizarrely were left trying to feed and shelter surrendered ISIS fighters from all over the world.
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Realistically a governments first responsibility before anything else is the physical safety of it’s citizenship.
If you know a percentage of a population are religious extremists which will never integrate into your society and will probably pose a risk, then how can you, as a government, take them in?
It’s a hard sell any way you slice it.
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The people who will leave Gaza are never gonna be let back in. The neighboring Arabic countries already have lots of Palestinian refugees.
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If that’s the attitude of everyone the whole world will be colonized and subjugated by imperialists. There will be a point where you cannot run anymore. Let me ask you a question, what would you do if this happened to you?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
this
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Jordan won’t take them because the Palestinians assassinated their king, created a civil war in Jordan, and tried to assassinate their next king.
Lebanon won’t take them because they keep joining Hezbollah.
Egypt won’t take them because they keep joining up with Muslim Brotherhood and trying to destabilize the government.
Syria won’t take them because they’re in the middle of a civil war.
Iran won’t take them because they’re more useful as a tool to destabilize Israel.
Am I missing anyone?
Because the neighboring countries did that in the past in various forms and it fucked them all up in some manner. These are not normal people. They’re twisted by decades of living under war or terrorist rule. Their population is so young because everyone old died that half the people alive never actually experienced a stable life. They know nothing but this. As a result they are really hard to integrate.
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Because then they risk becoming the target of what Israel buys with the 50 billion dollars Joe Biden just sent to them.
Edit: if to of