Leftists only love failed independence movements. Jews worked and fought for centuries before succeeding in building an independent homeland. As soon as they succeeded, it became the “wrong” thing.
If they hadn’t immediately started a project of displacing the people who had been there the last 2,000 years then you might have a point. But no they went straight to Terrorism, and we cheered.
Not exactly. Zionism was a labor-communist movement with an emphasis on fairly purchasing land from absent landlords, communal ownership, multiculturalism, agriculture, and independence for the native peoples of the region.
I know it goes against the popular narrative these days, but the nice thing about history is that it never changes. I’m happy to share primary sources or mainstream, independent scholarship on any of these points if you have followup questions on any of these points.
For now, here is a poster from 1900 to illustrate the point:
I feel like we’re talking about two very different things with the same name.
While that form of zionism may have existed at one point, it is completely irrelevant today, as the zionism seen in Israel is very much far right and enthnonationalist.
Yeah Zionism had a lot of different opinions on how and where to do it before the Holocaust gave the movement the political capital it needed to actually happen. Funny how often these “iT gOeS aGaiNsT the NaRraTivE” types actually just don’t know or deliberately ignore the complete context.
As I said, I am happy to provide any information you would like. The idea that Israel only exists because of the Holocaust is a historical misnomer. It’s true that some historians believe it accelerated the development, while others speculate that the huge decrease in world Jewish population inhibited the growth of the State.
The truth is that the forces of decolonization post-WW2 led to the creation of many newly independent states, including India and Pakistan, etc. The end of the British protectorate in Palestine-Eretz Israel (as it was called at the time) led to the international recognition of a state of Israel and a state of Palestine, with borders based on a roughly equal division of the Cisjordan region, based on the incorporation of the largest populations of the two groups.
Jewish leaders accepted the international resolution, while Arab leaders rejected it, and attacked the newly established state of Israel.
These events had as much if not more to do with the end of European colonialism than the Holocaust. It was much the same way that the British Raj was divided into roughly ethnic states of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.
“Labor-Zionism” is reactionary and ethnonationalist, they perpetuated the Nakba were willing to work with the far right as long as they were Jewish (putting ethnic politics above workers unity). IMO they should be seen like how we see national Socialism and national Bolshevism.
sry friend, the free tibet part’ll get you banned here
everyone knows, that tibet isn’t a country, but actually belongs to glourios china, which is, even tho it has one of the highest billionair density in the world, a true socialist utopia… also uigurs are a western lie
Leftists only love failed independence movements. Jews worked and fought for centuries before succeeding in building an independent homeland. As soon as they succeeded, it became the “wrong” thing.
I’m not afraid to say:
Free Palestine
Free Tibet
Free First Nations
Free Kurdistan
How about when they started genociding it became the wrong thing?
Say that. Say “genocide” instead of “succeed” if you love facts so much.
If they hadn’t immediately started a project of displacing the people who had been there the last 2,000 years then you might have a point. But no they went straight to Terrorism, and we cheered.
Israel was never a movement for freedom, from the start it was a far right enthnonationalist colonial project.
Not exactly. Zionism was a labor-communist movement with an emphasis on fairly purchasing land from absent landlords, communal ownership, multiculturalism, agriculture, and independence for the native peoples of the region.
I know it goes against the popular narrative these days, but the nice thing about history is that it never changes. I’m happy to share primary sources or mainstream, independent scholarship on any of these points if you have followup questions on any of these points.
For now, here is a poster from 1900 to illustrate the point:
I feel like we’re talking about two very different things with the same name.
While that form of zionism may have existed at one point, it is completely irrelevant today, as the zionism seen in Israel is very much far right and enthnonationalist.
Yeah Zionism had a lot of different opinions on how and where to do it before the Holocaust gave the movement the political capital it needed to actually happen. Funny how often these “iT gOeS aGaiNsT the NaRraTivE” types actually just don’t know or deliberately ignore the complete context.
As I said, I am happy to provide any information you would like. The idea that Israel only exists because of the Holocaust is a historical misnomer. It’s true that some historians believe it accelerated the development, while others speculate that the huge decrease in world Jewish population inhibited the growth of the State.
The truth is that the forces of decolonization post-WW2 led to the creation of many newly independent states, including India and Pakistan, etc. The end of the British protectorate in Palestine-Eretz Israel (as it was called at the time) led to the international recognition of a state of Israel and a state of Palestine, with borders based on a roughly equal division of the Cisjordan region, based on the incorporation of the largest populations of the two groups.
Jewish leaders accepted the international resolution, while Arab leaders rejected it, and attacked the newly established state of Israel.
These events had as much if not more to do with the end of European colonialism than the Holocaust. It was much the same way that the British Raj was divided into roughly ethnic states of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.
“Labor-Zionism” is reactionary and ethnonationalist, they perpetuated the Nakba were willing to work with the far right as long as they were Jewish (putting ethnic politics above workers unity). IMO they should be seen like how we see national Socialism and national Bolshevism.
sry friend, the free tibet part’ll get you banned here
everyone knows, that tibet isn’t a country, but actually belongs to glourios china, which is, even tho it has one of the highest billionair density in the world, a true socialist utopia… also uigurs are a western lie
Going against nation states and imperialism will never get you banned from this instance.
sry, mistook it for a ml community
is them getting banned for that here in the room with us?
🤡
I was banned for that just recently on ml
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/11702512
then you just meant Lemmy in general? Bc this isn’t .ml or .worldand they aren’t all of Lemmy
sry, I didn’t check the instance, thought this was a ml community
seems like a mutual misunderstanding then. sry for the harshness