I think the problem with btrfs is that it entered the spotlight way to early. With Wayland there was time to work on a lot of the kinks before everyone started seriously switching.
On btrfs a bunch of people switched blindly and then lost data. This caused many to have a bad impression of btrfs. These days it is significantly better but because there was so much fear there is less attention paid to it and it is less widely used.
Wayland didn’t work out networking, even to this day, which is why I’m still using Xorg.
waypipe?
X’s network transparency is overrated IMHO. Since ages most data on desktops is sent via shared memory to the X server (MIT-SHM extension) otherwise the performance would suck. This does not work over the network and so X over the network is actually quite slow. Waypipe works way better for me than SSH X forwarding.
@hummus273 It’s overrated because you don’t use it, I frequently do. If all you want to do is emulate Windows than Wayland is fine. If you need network functionality it is not.
You assume I’m not using it. On the contrary, I use it a lot at work. We have some old TK interfaces. They take ages to load over the network. The interfaces load much faster when using Xvnc running on the remote machine rather than X forwarding (but it is not as convenient).
@hummus273 Xvnc does not allow you to display individual applications only an entire desktop. I’m monitoring about 20 different computers doing different things and for me it is a significant advantage not to have to bring up a whole desktop but to be able to launch a single graphical application on my existing desktop.
I don’t really understand the degree of emotional attachment people have to one solution or another. For me it’s a simple application case, for me Wayland is not desirable, not only does it not network, but the embedded X-server as part of the kernel works very effectively by avoiding the kernel/userland switches an ordinary X server would require.
So for my use case, Wayland is NOT a replacement and so I have to object to people arguing that it is a full replacement for X, it is not.
Yes, that is what I meant with not as convenient.
Your use case is covered by waypipe (which in my tests is much more responsive than X11 forwarding).
I think you are confusing stuff here. Which kernel has an embedded X server?
What part of your use case is not covered by waypipe?
@hummus273 Waypipe would involve a lot of userland / kernel exchanges avoided by using the kernel based mode setting Xserver. It happens to work well with my hardware. And I don’t see any noticeable latency issues and not all apps work with Wayland hence I have no motivation to change to Wayland and every motivation to avoid it. Sorry if that gets someone’s panties in a wad.
Waypipe has nothing to do with the kernel mode setting driver. The X server code does not run in the kernel. Wayland compositors use kernel modesetting for mode changes, so not sure what your point is? Not saying you need to switch to Wayland, just saying that it covers the use case you described as impossible with Wayland.
@hummus273 Yes actually in my case it does. The kernel has an X-server built in but ONLY for Intel graphics and I happen to have Intel graphics. Sorry if you’re not familiar enough with X or the kernel to know that but that is a fact.
@hummus273 I have a 1gbit network connection at the co-lo, and 180mb/s cable and I don’t have any lag using X tunneled through ssh.
Not having any lag is physically impossible. You don’t notice it maybe. But if I open Firefox with X forwarding on the same network (1gbe) it is very noticeable for me.
@hummus273 Perhaps not because I’m not trying to game, and I can’t detect any changes faster than about 1/50th of a second anyway so fps faster than 50 is more or less moot for me.
Firefox is not a game?
Wayland as a protocol that apps use to talk to the desktop. It doesn’t use network at all really.
You need something like freeRDP for network access.
@possiblylinux127 It is touted as a replacement for X-windows but the PRIMARY ADVANTAGE of X-windows is that you can run a program on one machine and display it on anther making Wayland completely useless in a networked context.
It is not trying to be a one to one replacement. It is a totally different thing. You are wanting a motorcycle to replace your 2002 pickup truck.
Also X forwarding is broken for most stuff. It probably will work but it will run poorly and use lots of bandwidth. This is because there are layers and layers of work arounds to make modern hardware and software work on it. The X protocol was intended for mainframes in the 80’s. It should’ve died long ago.
@possiblylinux127 I agree with you, it’s not, but people here keep touting it as such and that is my issue. X-forwarding works great for me, I use it daily. I use it to access servers in my hosting service from my home office. I can fire up x2go if I need a remote console but most of the time a terminal and an app is quicker. I have no issues with lag, I’m sorry for those that do but it is just not a problem for me.
Do you use it over SSH?
@possiblylinux127 It strikes me as weird someone down votes a simple statement of fact. I guess they have a problem with reality.