cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/15032962

Alt text: a screenshot of a microblog post with the text “you walking down an alleyway with a gram of weed in your pocket, who would you rather catch you?” Below are two pictures side by side. One of Kamala Harris and the other of Batman.

  • @agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    0•3 months ago

    This is kinda stupid though. Neither of those sources give a particularly compelling practical justification for abstentionism.

    Sure, neither party represents the end-goal. But we exist within a system which centrally incorporates a mechanism for change. Voting for whichever administration is marginally better, harm reduction, is a vital tool in the toolbox. Sitting idly by while the right systematically entrenches authoritarianism yields objectively worse results for anarchists.

    • PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S [he/him]English
      1•3 months ago

      Neither of those sources give a particularly compelling practical justification for abstentionism.

      I don’t agree with you. Ward’s piece talks about how compromising on voting helped cost the CNT-FAI the Spanish Revolution.

      Sitting idly by while the right systematically entrenches authoritarianism yields objectively worse results for anarchists.

      Not voting ≠ sitting idly by. Quoting a different section of the same Anarchist FAQ:

      We do this by organising what Bakunin called “antipolitical social power of the working classes.” [Bakunin on Anarchism, p. 263] This activity which bases itself on the two broad strategies of encouraging direct action and building alternatives where we live and work.

      But more importantly, I really wanted to demonstrate in my previous comment that we’re not fucking bots, which I’m so tired of seeing, and that we’re real fucking people and our perspectives are just as valid as yours. I don’t give a fuck whether or not you agree with me on going to the ballot box because I’m not interested in debating whether or not you or anyone else go to the ballot box. You do whatever makes you comfortable.

      But I’m not going to do it myself because I’ve been there and done that. I’m not going to debate it because the possible good that can come out of it, almost zero, is not enough to justify the vigorous debate it attracts, sucking bandwidth away from actually important stuff. And I’m not going to lose any extra sleep over my nonparticipation in the election if Trump or Harris wins because ultimately, elections serve to ratify decisions already made by capital. And I refuse to be guilted over choosing not to participate in the ratification of our own oppression.

      • @agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        1•3 months ago

        Ward’s piece talks about how compromising on voting helped cost the CNT-FAI the Spanish Revolution.

        “Helped”. Maybe it played the pivotal role, maybe not. It’s hard to draw concrete analysis about what could have happened, even with cherry-picked examples.

        Not voting ≠ sitting idly by.

        It is in regards to utilization of this specific lever of praxis. Voting, and encouraging others to vote, is in no way incompatible with whatever other engagement activities you partake in. In fact it is a powerful tool to enable and empower all other actions. The only rational choice is to strategically vote to select the landscape more amenable to the organization and implementation of direct localized alternatives.

        When an autocrat runs, you vote against the autocrat because they do more damage to the people and the cause than the alternative. This is obvious. The only reason you wouldn’t want marginally better is if you’re hoping for things to get worse, like an accelerationist. Accelerationists are sociopaths.

        • PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S [he/him]English
          1•3 months ago

          The links I have cited have addressed the rest of your response in sufficient depth IMO. What I really find irritating is this suggestion:

          The only reason you wouldn’t want marginally better is if you’re hoping for things to get worse, like an accelerationist.

          I fractally reject this statement:

          • I absolutely do hope for things to get marginally better (as a weak case of “much better”). I am not in the business of causing chaos for its own sake (“Anarchy is order”).
          • I am not an accelerationist, and neither are any anarchists worth their salt. I reject that epithet, and the suggestion that I want things to get worse.
          • I reject the notion that voting is a “lever of praxis” at all, except in rare cases of local elections (but even then, the person I vote for is more likely to be “made useful” to the State than to radically stand for their voters).
          • I reject the notion that voting for the “least worst” figurehead has any impact on the decisions already made by those in power.
          • I reject the idea that one can only hope for things to monotonically get better or worse. Usually, decisions have tradeoffs. IMO, the “marginal benefit” of voting against an autocrat (1) does not actually exist and (2) debating its existence clogs up radical spaces and time (like I am doing right now! but my time isn’t very valuable to me lol) to debunk, taking this time and space from doing actually important stuff.
          • @agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            2•3 months ago

            I reject the notion that voting for the “least worst” figurehead has any impact on the decisions already made by those in power.

            This is abject paranoia, and observably false. Yes of course a lot of policy is captured by capital, but not all. There is a wide range of actual variance between candidates. If there wasn’t any difference and they were all on the same team, they wouldn’t spend so much money trying to get you to pick them.

            IMO, the “marginal benefit” of voting against an autocrat (1) does not actually exist and (2) debating its existence clogs up radical spaces and time

            I reject this opinion on both counts. It’s an extremely privileged worldview.

            taking this time and space from doing actually important stuff.

            Like what, exactly?