As odious as they are, the GOP at least sees and respects its base. And, they are delivering on a political project. We see Trump as a buffoon; they understand him as the first Republican president to actually understand the base and want to make it happy.
The DNC, DCCC, DGA, etc., love their donor class and the encrusted Dem managerial and consulting class that serves their interests. They don’t hear or respect their base, and they will do anything they can to kneecap the base when it wants to move left, up to and including pumping money into primary races on the side of anti-choice candidates against fully electable progressive challengers preferred by the base.
Thus, there is no left political project. In the language of European politics, we have solely have a choice between a center-right Christian Democratic Party and a fascist National Front party.
I don’t know that the right listens to their base so much as they have identified ideas they can exploit. They rally around political hot button topics that drive turn out and engagement.
As far as the democrats go, I can’t really argue with you there.
We need to dismantle the underlying system that allows a two party, money driven electoral system to exist. How you do that when it requires the cooperation of both parties is a question I don’t have the answer to.
The DNC respects it’s base. You just probably think more of the base are moving left than there really are. Reddit users, and now here, seem to exist in such a closed echo chamber they think their highly minority point of view is actually popular outside of their circles. It’s not. Most votinf Democrats are still moderate, which is well represented by the party today. There are fringe progressives that exist in the party (which is not remotely a new thing) and get about as much represntation as they should.
The DNC, DCCC, DGA, etc., love their donor class and the encrusted Dem managerial and consulting class that serves their interests.
Why I don’t waste ballots on democrats anymore. Their donors’ interests are not my interests; and if no one’s serving my interests, then I don’t have a reason to want to see the “experiment” perpetuate. “Harm reduction” and “buh buh buh it could be the END of our DEMOCRACY” only gets me laughing anymore, because I’m not being represented whatsoever anyway by this system, but a whole bunch of settlers want to come and extort support out of me regardless like they’re just entitled to it.
For those currently flouting rule 5, where’s your discussion that doesn’t hinge itself on a convenient boogeyman? What material conditions can your candidates truly change without being stymied by some lobbyist they’re in the process of sucking the intestines out of? 'Cause I see a whole lot of nothing; and don’t none of y’all have a good answer for it.
You feel disenfranchised by Democrats so you’ve concluded that it would be most politically expedient to disengage from the entire process?
Don’t get me wrong, I follow your reasoning, and certainly see where you’re coming from, but this is precisely the kind of reasoning that politicians pay attention to when deciding whose interests to cater to. If the average progressive-leaning voter refuses to show up at the polls anytime that policymaking doesn’t exactly match up with expectations or a best case scenario, but the political donor class shows up to your fundraiser every year with a big ol’ check and a promise to vote, whose interests are going to receive the most discussion?
How will withholding your vote make anything better? If it won’t, why do you waste your time writing about it on the internet?
The flip side is that Democrats have no incentive at all to shift leftward if progressives always vote Democrat. Leftists aren’t going to vote for Republicans, so it’s in the best interests of the party leadership to court the so-called center because the left wing has no alternative. Being a safe vote is therefore a losing strategy for leftists, which is why you should only vote if there actually is a progressive option.
Problem here is I have lived life when the republicans win and yeah I don’t want to be fucked up the ass but if im tied down and going to be raped but they will give me the option of lube im going to take the lube.
So if the polls show overwhelming support for Democrats and the Democratic platform, you think that those politicians would then start passing conservative policies? I’m sorry, I simply don’t follow. What would be their incentive to enact policies that are out of step with their own platform?
The only reason the center gets courted is because those are the voters who can be convinced to come out and vote on issues where some middle ground exists. If the progressive base fails to vote for the best candidate, which will typically be a Democrat, then the only choice that a Democrat has to gain enough votes to get elected is to shift to the right, towards the voters who are possible to sway.
The modern Republican strategy is to activate as much of their base as possible and get them angry enough to go to the polls and vote. This has been successful in some areas and less so in others, but it was a signal to the Dems that the middle was up for grabs, which is why a lot of our politics have shifted to the right.
The only path available to combat this change is to match the furvor on the left. In a republic like the US, the best case scenario is landing somewhere in the middle. It’s the theory our system of government rests upon. That theory fails when people disengage from the process.
It seems like you have strong convictions about how things should work around here. This is a great first step. We have a limited ability to express those views by voting, but keep in mind that politicians want to stay in power, so if you go to events, call their office, or send them an email about how to earn your vote, they’ll pay attention. They might not do exactly what you say, but your voice will be heard and that becomes a factor in policymaking. If you disengage completely, then they have no choice but to hear the voices that remain, which are generally conservative these days.
With respect, there are other and more effective ways to make your voice heard than participation in a system that is designed from the ground up to prevent the people from achieving parity in government with the wealthy.
Not “feel”. “Actively am.” And it’s fucking laughable to think that these politicians ever looked to the masses before looking to the donor class. Like, you are either pity-inducingly naive, or frustratingly deceitful trying to convince me that was ever going to happen. Beyond that, just because they show up and donate, it’s just… All of a sudden okay for their injustices to move through the party? They got paid, so it’s fine? We’re just going to endlessly sideline morality and ethics because lobbyists grease the wheels that you need greased, be damned the collateral and consequences?
Again, why I have no time and all the contempt for your party. How’m I supposed to see y’all any different from republicans when y’all play the same games? At this point, I just want the house of cards to fall in already. Fuck propping it back up, it’s the same dishonest scoundrels either way.
As odious as they are, the GOP at least sees and respects its base. And, they are delivering on a political project. We see Trump as a buffoon; they understand him as the first Republican president to actually understand the base and want to make it happy.
The DNC, DCCC, DGA, etc., love their donor class and the encrusted Dem managerial and consulting class that serves their interests. They don’t hear or respect their base, and they will do anything they can to kneecap the base when it wants to move left, up to and including pumping money into primary races on the side of anti-choice candidates against fully electable progressive challengers preferred by the base.
Thus, there is no left political project. In the language of European politics, we have solely have a choice between a center-right Christian Democratic Party and a fascist National Front party.
I don’t know that the right listens to their base so much as they have identified ideas they can exploit. They rally around political hot button topics that drive turn out and engagement.
As far as the democrats go, I can’t really argue with you there.
We need to dismantle the underlying system that allows a two party, money driven electoral system to exist. How you do that when it requires the cooperation of both parties is a question I don’t have the answer to.
Definitely
Republicans don’t try to help their base
They just try not to make it obvious that they’re making their lives worse
The DNC respects it’s base. You just probably think more of the base are moving left than there really are. Reddit users, and now here, seem to exist in such a closed echo chamber they think their highly minority point of view is actually popular outside of their circles. It’s not. Most votinf Democrats are still moderate, which is well represented by the party today. There are fringe progressives that exist in the party (which is not remotely a new thing) and get about as much represntation as they should.
All USAns need to familiarize themselves with the concept of an Overton Window, and really give theirs a very thorough examination.
You know how to get a party to listen to your issues?
Vote the ones that don’t listen out of office.
But then you’d have to engage, vote, organize, and compromise, instead of complain on the internet.
You can do both. It’s ignorant to make unjustified assumptions of people.
Counterpoint: see other comments here.
Why I don’t waste ballots on democrats anymore. Their donors’ interests are not my interests; and if no one’s serving my interests, then I don’t have a reason to want to see the “experiment” perpetuate. “Harm reduction” and “buh buh buh it could be the END of our DEMOCRACY” only gets me laughing anymore, because I’m not being represented whatsoever anyway by this system, but a whole bunch of settlers want to come and extort support out of me regardless like they’re just entitled to it.
For those currently flouting rule 5, where’s your discussion that doesn’t hinge itself on a convenient boogeyman? What material conditions can your candidates truly change without being stymied by some lobbyist they’re in the process of sucking the intestines out of? 'Cause I see a whole lot of nothing; and don’t none of y’all have a good answer for it.
You feel disenfranchised by Democrats so you’ve concluded that it would be most politically expedient to disengage from the entire process?
Don’t get me wrong, I follow your reasoning, and certainly see where you’re coming from, but this is precisely the kind of reasoning that politicians pay attention to when deciding whose interests to cater to. If the average progressive-leaning voter refuses to show up at the polls anytime that policymaking doesn’t exactly match up with expectations or a best case scenario, but the political donor class shows up to your fundraiser every year with a big ol’ check and a promise to vote, whose interests are going to receive the most discussion?
How will withholding your vote make anything better? If it won’t, why do you waste your time writing about it on the internet?
The flip side is that Democrats have no incentive at all to shift leftward if progressives always vote Democrat. Leftists aren’t going to vote for Republicans, so it’s in the best interests of the party leadership to court the so-called center because the left wing has no alternative. Being a safe vote is therefore a losing strategy for leftists, which is why you should only vote if there actually is a progressive option.
Problem here is I have lived life when the republicans win and yeah I don’t want to be fucked up the ass but if im tied down and going to be raped but they will give me the option of lube im going to take the lube.
So if the polls show overwhelming support for Democrats and the Democratic platform, you think that those politicians would then start passing conservative policies? I’m sorry, I simply don’t follow. What would be their incentive to enact policies that are out of step with their own platform?
The only reason the center gets courted is because those are the voters who can be convinced to come out and vote on issues where some middle ground exists. If the progressive base fails to vote for the best candidate, which will typically be a Democrat, then the only choice that a Democrat has to gain enough votes to get elected is to shift to the right, towards the voters who are possible to sway.
The modern Republican strategy is to activate as much of their base as possible and get them angry enough to go to the polls and vote. This has been successful in some areas and less so in others, but it was a signal to the Dems that the middle was up for grabs, which is why a lot of our politics have shifted to the right.
The only path available to combat this change is to match the furvor on the left. In a republic like the US, the best case scenario is landing somewhere in the middle. It’s the theory our system of government rests upon. That theory fails when people disengage from the process.
It seems like you have strong convictions about how things should work around here. This is a great first step. We have a limited ability to express those views by voting, but keep in mind that politicians want to stay in power, so if you go to events, call their office, or send them an email about how to earn your vote, they’ll pay attention. They might not do exactly what you say, but your voice will be heard and that becomes a factor in policymaking. If you disengage completely, then they have no choice but to hear the voices that remain, which are generally conservative these days.
With respect, there are other and more effective ways to make your voice heard than participation in a system that is designed from the ground up to prevent the people from achieving parity in government with the wealthy.
Not “feel”. “Actively am.” And it’s fucking laughable to think that these politicians ever looked to the masses before looking to the donor class. Like, you are either pity-inducingly naive, or frustratingly deceitful trying to convince me that was ever going to happen. Beyond that, just because they show up and donate, it’s just… All of a sudden okay for their injustices to move through the party? They got paid, so it’s fine? We’re just going to endlessly sideline morality and ethics because lobbyists grease the wheels that you need greased, be damned the collateral and consequences?
Again, why I have no time and all the contempt for your party. How’m I supposed to see y’all any different from republicans when y’all play the same games? At this point, I just want the house of cards to fall in already. Fuck propping it back up, it’s the same dishonest scoundrels either way.