• Neato
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    41 year ago

    This might work at the higher end with tech brands and expensive products. People near the poverty line or people with no savings (most people) simply can’t afford to do any of this. Sustainable, green, locally sourced = expensive.

    It’s a good thing to do if you can. But this won’t change the world or the corporations generating most pollution. Everyone needs heat and food. Everyone needs power. And most of us, wealthy and poor, don’t get to choose who creates our electricity or supplies us with water.

    • BraveSirZaphod
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      11 year ago

      Sustainable, green, locally sourced = expensive.

      There are economic policies that can greatly mitigate this. Carbon taxes that subsidize sustainable projects, for one example.

      And most of us, wealthy and poor, don’t get to choose who creates our electricity

      For what it’s worth, this often isn’t true. Here in NYC, for instance, electricity generation and transportation are somewhat independent markets. Any NYC resident can choose to change who actually supplies their electricity, and there are companies that guarantee renewable sources. It does, of course, cost more.

      • Neato
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        21 year ago

        There are economic policies that can greatly mitigate this. Carbon taxes that subsidize sustainable projects, for one example.

        But those are not things individuals can choose directly. Those are regulations and laws that require organization.

        • BraveSirZaphod
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          11 year ago

          Of course, that’s a political aim, but individuals can prioritize pro-environment policies in their own voting decisions and personal political advocacy.

      • @bloodfart@lemmy.ml
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        11 year ago

        There are economic policies that can greatly mitigate this. Carbon taxes that subsidize sustainable projects, for one example.

        No, there aren’t. Cheap stuff is cheap because it’s mass produced using techniques and materials that combine cost savings and externalized environmental effects with the deprivation of global trade.

        • BraveSirZaphod
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          11 year ago

          The point is that carbon taxes can price those environmental externalities into the actual cost of the product, and that money can be invested into climate-friendly projects.

          • @bloodfart@lemmy.ml
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            11 year ago

            Does everyone get a raise too?

            Shouldn’t the carbon tax be paid out to the places with the mines and factories?

            • BraveSirZaphod
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              21 year ago

              Shifting towards environmentally friendly practices does cost money, yes, and that money will have to come from somewhere. Directly imposing it on companies will naturally cause it to be passed on to the consumer in higher prices.

              You seem to be suggesting that we should somehow magically eliminate climate-harmful processes while preserving the cheap costs, the demand for which being exactly what got us into this mess in the first place. The world doesn’t work that way.

              But, again, the money raised can be used towards investing into and subsidizing climate-friendly processes, which can result in those products being cost-competitive.

              • @bloodfart@lemmy.ml
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                11 year ago

                Okay no one gets a raise to pay for this stuff, loud and clear.

                Is the carbon tax money at least going to go to the places with the extractive and intensive industries the carbon comes from?

                • BraveSirZaphod
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                  11 year ago

                  If you can find a politically acceptable policy that makes money for raises to everyone suddenly appear, lots of people would be very interested in that.

                  You cannot demand that we stop using cheap processes and then simultaneously be surprised that the alternatives are less cheap, but for the final time - and I’m afraid I’ll be checking out here - revenue can be used to subsidize those alternatives and make them more affordable.

                  Cheers.