Like you totally ignored all points of fact raised by me and didn’t even know that Israel detains Palestinians without charge all the time outside of active war?
I’ll tell you why I didn’t fight you on these points: the topic of conversation is Palestinian statehood. NOT Hamas. What you are doing is classic hasbara bullshit, if in doubt and people start talking about human rights for Palestinians, shift the conversation to Hamas. You think or at least imply that the actions of a few can detract from the need for basic rights for every single human being. As I said, if that was the case then Israelis lose them too.
And guess what? Hamas are terrorists and I agree they are shit. Now if you could face up to the various despicable crimes of Israel we might actually get somewhere here.
Listen I can totally face up to the war crimes. There have been many. The side that actually punishes war crimes is redeemable. The side that rewards war crimes is not.
I understand that in Israel there is a political movement that fosters a culture of wiping things under the rug or maybe pardoning war criminals like Trump did and would do again in America. But every dead kid in Gaza rests squarely at the feet of Hamas. Seems like it’s about 3% of the population that is so hardcore for Hamas that they are ready to die for the cause with their loved ones in tow.
Listen I can totally face up to the war crimes. There have been many.
Thank you. This is very bad and I’m sure you can see that not all have been punished, in fact I think the WCK attack is one of the only ones recently that have?
But Israel is still allowed at the UN. They should be in the UN despite all of the (IMO) horrendous things that the country is doing and has done. Since Hamas would not be the representatives of Palestine at the UN (so complaining about them is not relevant), why should Palestine not have full UN membership? Why do they not deserve a proper seat at the table?
It would be like saying Israel doesn’t deserve membership because settlers are terrorists and the IDF and the current government supports them. I don’t understand how you can apply the logic to Hamas and Palestine but not there?
If you answer nothing else, please answer this: do you think that the state of Palestine has the right to exist?
Sure, in the West Bank. Gaza is forfeit. It’s a collapsed state, lawless, unincorporated territory, irredenta, free to whoever can establish order.
Even from just a physical standpoint, the very foundation of Gaza’s cities and towns were turned to Swiss cheese by Hamas. Nothing is stable. Gaza has zero capability or capacity to rebuild itself and literally nobody else cares enough about Gaza to do it other than Israel. Qatar only sends money if Hamas is fielding soldiers to kill Jews, the West only sends money if Hamas tricks enough human shields into being “martyred.”
Gaza is not forfeit, it can be rebuilt. But anyway, if you agree to a state in the West Bank, then you should have no problem with Palestine having full UN membership, right?
the West only sends money if Hamas tricks enough human shields into being “martyred.”
This comes across dehumanizing and frankly, disgusting. They are not “shields” by living in their fucking houses. They didn’t build the tunnels did they? Why should they die because of them?
Membership in the United Nations is open to all other peace-loving states which accept the obligations contained in the present Charter and, in the judgment of the Organization, are able and willing to carry out these obligations.
Literally would be possible if not for the US’s veto.
They shouldn’t die because of tunnels. They should evacuate and get somewhere there isn’t tunnels.
Aren’t there tunnels basically all over? And how the hell would they know where there aren’t tunnels? Leave your home and go to the middle of nowhere amidst constant bombing and chaos with thousands of others so Israel can bomb it’s way down to subterranean tunnels?
“Your apartment block has been marked for destruction, please climb over the bodies of your neighbours and calmly make your way to the designated safe zone… by which we mean the zone that is probably safe for now”
Some dystopian shit right there. Everyone went to Rafah and now look
The UN could not have existed at all without its charter members coming together for the future of the world.
Membership in the United Nations is open to all other peace-loving states which accept the obligations contained in the present Charter and, in the judgment of the Organization, are able and willing to carry out these obligations.
Seems clear to me they aren’t ready. Excise Hamas from the West Bank, excise Iranian corruption, stop the rocket attacks, destroy the tunnels, and then talk about the West Bank and the PA’s willingness to carry out it’s obligations. Can’t have their cake and eat it too.
This is the classic defense of Hamas by the way. Disregard all points of fact, talk about how evil Israel is.
Like you totally ignored all points of fact raised by me and didn’t even know that Israel detains Palestinians without charge all the time outside of active war?
I’ll tell you why I didn’t fight you on these points: the topic of conversation is Palestinian statehood. NOT Hamas. What you are doing is classic hasbara bullshit, if in doubt and people start talking about human rights for Palestinians, shift the conversation to Hamas. You think or at least imply that the actions of a few can detract from the need for basic rights for every single human being. As I said, if that was the case then Israelis lose them too.
And guess what? Hamas are terrorists and I agree they are shit. Now if you could face up to the various despicable crimes of Israel we might actually get somewhere here.
Listen I can totally face up to the war crimes. There have been many. The side that actually punishes war crimes is redeemable. The side that rewards war crimes is not.
I understand that in Israel there is a political movement that fosters a culture of wiping things under the rug or maybe pardoning war criminals like Trump did and would do again in America. But every dead kid in Gaza rests squarely at the feet of Hamas. Seems like it’s about 3% of the population that is so hardcore for Hamas that they are ready to die for the cause with their loved ones in tow.
Thank you. This is very bad and I’m sure you can see that not all have been punished, in fact I think the WCK attack is one of the only ones recently that have?
But Israel is still allowed at the UN. They should be in the UN despite all of the (IMO) horrendous things that the country is doing and has done. Since Hamas would not be the representatives of Palestine at the UN (so complaining about them is not relevant), why should Palestine not have full UN membership? Why do they not deserve a proper seat at the table?
It would be like saying Israel doesn’t deserve membership because settlers are terrorists and the IDF and the current government supports them. I don’t understand how you can apply the logic to Hamas and Palestine but not there?
If you answer nothing else, please answer this: do you think that the state of Palestine has the right to exist?
Sure, in the West Bank. Gaza is forfeit. It’s a collapsed state, lawless, unincorporated territory, irredenta, free to whoever can establish order.
Even from just a physical standpoint, the very foundation of Gaza’s cities and towns were turned to Swiss cheese by Hamas. Nothing is stable. Gaza has zero capability or capacity to rebuild itself and literally nobody else cares enough about Gaza to do it other than Israel. Qatar only sends money if Hamas is fielding soldiers to kill Jews, the West only sends money if Hamas tricks enough human shields into being “martyred.”
Gaza is not forfeit, it can be rebuilt. But anyway, if you agree to a state in the West Bank, then you should have no problem with Palestine having full UN membership, right?
This comes across dehumanizing and frankly, disgusting. They are not “shields” by living in their fucking houses. They didn’t build the tunnels did they? Why should they die because of them?
They have a long way to go on anti corruption and human rights before they deserve membership.
They shouldn’t die because of tunnels. They should evacuate and get somewhere there isn’t tunnels. Just like the other 98% of the population has done.
What about China? Myanmar? Venezuela? Tons of others. This is clearly not a requirement.
https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter/chapter-2
Literally would be possible if not for the US’s veto.
Aren’t there tunnels basically all over? And how the hell would they know where there aren’t tunnels? Leave your home and go to the middle of nowhere amidst constant bombing and chaos with thousands of others so Israel can bomb it’s way down to subterranean tunnels?
“Your apartment block has been marked for destruction, please climb over the bodies of your neighbours and calmly make your way to the designated safe zone… by which we mean the zone that is probably safe for now”
Some dystopian shit right there. Everyone went to Rafah and now look
The UN could not have existed at all without its charter members coming together for the future of the world.
Seems clear to me they aren’t ready. Excise Hamas from the West Bank, excise Iranian corruption, stop the rocket attacks, destroy the tunnels, and then talk about the West Bank and the PA’s willingness to carry out it’s obligations. Can’t have their cake and eat it too.