As someone who’s worked large events and closely with police or other big wig officials, I am consistently surprised at how people are surprised about how high profile event security works.
The amount of work that goes into keeping people safe regularly is monumental. You’d also be surprised at just how much hard targets don’t get attacked when a limelight is cast on them compared to soft targets. It’s violence prevention 101 and easily the most important.
Agreed, most of the responses here are ridiculous.
They bring snipers out anytime there’s a big event or a major public figure. Michelle Obama visited the University of Akron when I was going there, they had snipers all over the place.
They’re not bringing out snipers for some kind of perverted crowd control. It’s almost definitely so if someone shows up with a gun and starts firing into the crowd all the protestors don’t get shot.
Yep b3causr there’s absolutely no difference in armed defense when the president or first lady is visiting and when students are protesting, none at all.
He’ll might as well tell the students of tiananmen square that tanks are just a normal part of defence.
Have you considered what would happen if an active shooter, consider one that’s pro-Israel, showed up in that crowd and they didn’t have a sniper?
Tell me you wouldn’t be over here screaming “ACAB” when the cops are unable to get to the shooter (and have to risk firing through a crowd or do nothing) because there are hundreds of college students between where the cops are standing and where the active shooter is.
Having a sniper on the roof is in no way similar to a tank running someone over in the street. There is no practical application for a tank vs a civilian population. There is 100% a valid reason to use a highly skilled marksman to increase the odds that if something bad does happen, it’s stopped quickly, and you can get EMTs to the injured parties.
Your position is offensively wrong.
EDIT: Minor edit to remove a swear and switch to textual emphasis.
Yeah and it’s just a nice little coincidence that they could be used on the protestors too right?
Give me ONE incident of an active duty US sniper (police or military) EVER shooting a SINGLE protestor with even so much as a rubber bullet. Otherwise your argument is complete bull shit.
Edit: This isn’t some “good guy with a gun” or “untrained beat cop” situation. This is a sniper.
Edit 2: For anyone who wants to understand what is almost certainly happening here, watch this video https://youtu.be/PnEB5u2wqEY?si=58MTT_sqv1Tf7Lv6. This is standard procedure when you get these large gatherings to protect people. This person is actively encouraging increased risk to the safety of the protestors (and everyone else involved), while making personal attacks, and completely unfounded claims about this being some form of political persecution. It’s IMO ridiculous and indefensible behavior regardless of where you stand on the Israel and Gaza situation.
As I already told the other person: Those were not snipers, they were national guardsman that were untrained for that kind of work and they shouldn’t have ever been there.
Why shouldn’t they have been there? By the logic of the other poster, having the national guard with rifles lined up would have protected the protesters from an active shooter. Wouldn’t everyone be so angry at the police if they didn’t stop the active shooter with the national guardsmen?
Is there something special about being a sniper that makes you not a cop? That makes you not part of the same system, the same trainings, the same culture, the same lunch room, that leads regular officers and riot cops to brutalize protesters, especially those on the left? Is there some requirement that to be a sniper you have to be extra nice to leftist causes?
The fact is that absent some specific threat the department received, or some extra-special high value target/event (Superbowl, presidential address, etc) the use of snipers to “protect” the protesters is a farse. We should both know that if anything the snipers are there to “protect the university and its property” much more than the protesters because that’s what the rest of the cops are there for.
The 40ish arrests kinda lean towards this being intimidation. Also I think shooting into a crowd (where these teams where pointing) has never been a good idea and as far as I can tell no evidence exists of even a single time a sniper team has been successfully used in any crowded area. (If you find some please share)
It’s not intimidation because it’s normal for any large crowd. The snipers are not there to arrest anybody. The snipers are not going to assassinate some random college student.
You’re also not going to find “the snipers really saved the day” articles because they’re just going to say “the police” in pretty much any article praising a police response. They also don’t normally shoot their guns and are more to assist the folks on the ground with figuring out where trouble is and how to get to it.
You could do a lot of the same job with a pair of binoculars. I’m sure they don’t because it’s just another expense and then you need to switch from binoculars to a rifle and find the target again if something does go sideways.
Give me ONE incident of an active duty US sniper (police or military) EVER shooting a SINGLE protestor with even so much as a rubber bullet. Otherwise your argument is complete bull shit.
So because that very specific combination of a sniper shooting a protestor in America hasn’t happened yet that makes it okay? Snipers have shot other civilians, the police have shot protestors and police snipers have shot protestors before in other countries. So you would have to be really dishonest to pretend that means it’s fine.
Edit: This isn’t some “good guy with a gun” or “untrained beat cop” situation. This is a sniper.
“Police violence is okay as lk g as they are trained”
So was this shooting justified then because the sniper wasn’t as untrained as a random beat cop?
Like I get you’ve committed to the position and there’s no way you’re mature enough to deviate from that now, but my god this is such a bad hill yo die on.
Did you even read the article you linked? A dude shot his girlfriend in the head with a shotgun. Then was taking shots in the dark (literally) shooting from a building while he had a baby in his arms. That could not be more different of a situation from stopping an active shooter in a public gathering. It also has absolutely nothing to do with using snipers as some means of intimidating protestors or suppressing political speech. This was a very tricky domestic situation that went wrong.
This article also says:
A former federal law enforcement sniper, whose name KCUR is withholding because he now works in the private sector, said “99.9 percent of the time” snipers are relaying information to commanders, not firing their weapons.
The most important rule for a sniper is they “must be absolutely sure of the identity” of any target. That directive is on page one of the FBI’s Advance Rifle Training manual.
Don’t you dare start talking about maturity. You’ve been more than happy to make numerous personal attacks and inflammatory remarks.
I’m done with this conversation. You can believe what you want but you are very very wrong about the facts and risks of this situation and the personal attacks do nothing to help your argument.
This is some absolute bullshit “good guy with a gun” mentality.
Has any shooting to your knowledge been stopped by anything other than a self defender, a cop, or the guy shooting himself to avoid said cops? The common denominator in any of those is “a gun held by someone intending to stop the shooter.” (In the case of the shooter shooting himself, it is generally still to avoid a group of guys with guns intending to stop the shooter, the cops.)
You’re one of those “harvard says the good guy with a gun is a myth” guys, aren’t you? I can smell it in your comment. Seems you missed an important note from that study however: While defensive gun use is “more accurately estimated at 100,000 DGU/yr,” instead of the CDC’s reported estimates by Kleck and Lott, all gun deaths including suicide and accidents are still around 60,000 a year, adjusting for intentional homicide only gets 12,000/yr, and just for fun those scary black rifles that are “the problem” are only used in ~500 deaths/yr. Furthermore their study discounted entirely what is likely the most common form of defensive gun use, defensive display, in which the sight of the firearm is enough to scare off the attacker. This means that Harvards 100,000 estimate would be low if we included them. Still though, even with them pretending defensive display is all lies, 100,000>60,000>12,000>500, meaning guns are used far more for defense than murder or suicide.
What can we take away from this? Well, if 100,000 is SO infrequent that we can categorize it as a “myth,” what then is 60,000 or 12,000 or 500? If 100,000 dgu is a myth, so to must be our 60,000 gun deaths at 40,000 less.
I’m really not sure a sniper would be super useful in that situation. Obviously, different environment than the 2017 las vegas shooting, but I don’t really think that those snipers on rooftops would really be effective at all in taking out a committed shooter, which could just shack up in one of the many buildings with windows facing the crowd and fire down or into the crowd. Maybe in that case, a sniper might be able to peep out where the shooter is, or might be able to get a shooter on the way in or out, but with the level of people there and the level of surrounding buildings, I’m really not sure they’d be able to do very much. Obviously if someone just walks in off the street and opens up on everyone, then a sniper might be more effective, but I dunno.
It seems insane to me because I’ve only met armed police once in my life, and that was at download festival in the UK after a spree of terrorist attacks across the UK and the rest of Europe.
That was quite entertaining however as the armed police kept having to run away from drunk people who wanted pictures taken with the guns.
As someone who’s worked large events and closely with police or other big wig officials, I am consistently surprised at how people are surprised about how high profile event security works.
The amount of work that goes into keeping people safe regularly is monumental. You’d also be surprised at just how much hard targets don’t get attacked when a limelight is cast on them compared to soft targets. It’s violence prevention 101 and easily the most important.
If you see something, say something.
PDF warnings:
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/whats-next-soft-target-attacks
https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/DHS-Soft-Target-Crowded-Place-Security-Plan-Overview-052018-508_0.pdf
https://www.fema.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/fema_faith-communities_security-soft-targets-crowded-places.pdf
Agreed, most of the responses here are ridiculous.
They bring snipers out anytime there’s a big event or a major public figure. Michelle Obama visited the University of Akron when I was going there, they had snipers all over the place.
They’re not bringing out snipers for some kind of perverted crowd control. It’s almost definitely so if someone shows up with a gun and starts firing into the crowd all the protestors don’t get shot.
Yep b3causr there’s absolutely no difference in armed defense when the president or first lady is visiting and when students are protesting, none at all.
He’ll might as well tell the students of tiananmen square that tanks are just a normal part of defence.
🤡
Have you considered what would happen if an active shooter, consider one that’s pro-Israel, showed up in that crowd and they didn’t have a sniper?
Tell me you wouldn’t be over here screaming “ACAB” when the cops are unable to get to the shooter (and have to risk firing through a crowd or do nothing) because there are hundreds of college students between where the cops are standing and where the active shooter is.
Having a sniper on the roof is in no way similar to a tank running someone over in the street. There is no practical application for a tank vs a civilian population. There is 100% a valid reason to use a highly skilled marksman to increase the odds that if something bad does happen, it’s stopped quickly, and you can get EMTs to the injured parties.
Your position is offensively wrong.
EDIT: Minor edit to remove a swear and switch to textual emphasis.
You Americans truly live in a weird world.
https://files.catbox.moe/u7hicb.mp4
The cops are not there to protect the protestors.
removed by mod
Give me ONE incident of an active duty US sniper (police or military) EVER shooting a SINGLE protestor with even so much as a rubber bullet. Otherwise your argument is complete bull shit.
Edit: This isn’t some “good guy with a gun” or “untrained beat cop” situation. This is a sniper.
Edit 2: For anyone who wants to understand what is almost certainly happening here, watch this video https://youtu.be/PnEB5u2wqEY?si=58MTT_sqv1Tf7Lv6. This is standard procedure when you get these large gatherings to protect people. This person is actively encouraging increased risk to the safety of the protestors (and everyone else involved), while making personal attacks, and completely unfounded claims about this being some form of political persecution. It’s IMO ridiculous and indefensible behavior regardless of where you stand on the Israel and Gaza situation.
Does Kent State not count?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
Those are not snipers, they were untrained national guardsman that shouldn’t have ever been there. No Kent does not count.
Yea but those were hippy beatniks so it’s fine.
/S
In that case it was a bunch of National guardsmen, not snipers so he’s not wrong if he’s talking just snipers.
Kent state. There’s your one. Do you want two?
As I already told the other person: Those were not snipers, they were national guardsman that were untrained for that kind of work and they shouldn’t have ever been there.
Why shouldn’t they have been there? By the logic of the other poster, having the national guard with rifles lined up would have protected the protesters from an active shooter. Wouldn’t everyone be so angry at the police if they didn’t stop the active shooter with the national guardsmen?
Is there something special about being a sniper that makes you not a cop? That makes you not part of the same system, the same trainings, the same culture, the same lunch room, that leads regular officers and riot cops to brutalize protesters, especially those on the left? Is there some requirement that to be a sniper you have to be extra nice to leftist causes?
The fact is that absent some specific threat the department received, or some extra-special high value target/event (Superbowl, presidential address, etc) the use of snipers to “protect” the protesters is a farse. We should both know that if anything the snipers are there to “protect the university and its property” much more than the protesters because that’s what the rest of the cops are there for.
The 40ish arrests kinda lean towards this being intimidation. Also I think shooting into a crowd (where these teams where pointing) has never been a good idea and as far as I can tell no evidence exists of even a single time a sniper team has been successfully used in any crowded area. (If you find some please share)
It’s not intimidation because it’s normal for any large crowd. The snipers are not there to arrest anybody. The snipers are not going to assassinate some random college student.
You’re also not going to find “the snipers really saved the day” articles because they’re just going to say “the police” in pretty much any article praising a police response. They also don’t normally shoot their guns and are more to assist the folks on the ground with figuring out where trouble is and how to get to it.
You could do a lot of the same job with a pair of binoculars. I’m sure they don’t because it’s just another expense and then you need to switch from binoculars to a rifle and find the target again if something does go sideways.
So because that very specific combination of a sniper shooting a protestor in America hasn’t happened yet that makes it okay? Snipers have shot other civilians, the police have shot protestors and police snipers have shot protestors before in other countries. So you would have to be really dishonest to pretend that means it’s fine.
“Police violence is okay as lk g as they are trained”
https://www.kcur.org/news/2024-03-25/a-missouri-police-sniper-killed-a-2-year-old-girl-why-did-he-take-the-shot
So was this shooting justified then because the sniper wasn’t as untrained as a random beat cop?
Like I get you’ve committed to the position and there’s no way you’re mature enough to deviate from that now, but my god this is such a bad hill yo die on.
Did you even read the article you linked? A dude shot his girlfriend in the head with a shotgun. Then was taking shots in the dark (literally) shooting from a building while he had a baby in his arms. That could not be more different of a situation from stopping an active shooter in a public gathering. It also has absolutely nothing to do with using snipers as some means of intimidating protestors or suppressing political speech. This was a very tricky domestic situation that went wrong.
This article also says:
Don’t you dare start talking about maturity. You’ve been more than happy to make numerous personal attacks and inflammatory remarks.
I’m done with this conversation. You can believe what you want but you are very very wrong about the facts and risks of this situation and the personal attacks do nothing to help your argument.
Good job just ignoring 90% of my comment because you didn’t want to answer my question because it would mean admitting you’re a clown
I sincerely hope your 100% blind trust in the laughably corrupt and violent police force never betrays you.
Has any shooting to your knowledge been stopped by anything other than a self defender, a cop, or the guy shooting himself to avoid said cops? The common denominator in any of those is “a gun held by someone intending to stop the shooter.” (In the case of the shooter shooting himself, it is generally still to avoid a group of guys with guns intending to stop the shooter, the cops.)
You’re one of those “harvard says the good guy with a gun is a myth” guys, aren’t you? I can smell it in your comment. Seems you missed an important note from that study however: While defensive gun use is “more accurately estimated at 100,000 DGU/yr,” instead of the CDC’s reported estimates by Kleck and Lott, all gun deaths including suicide and accidents are still around 60,000 a year, adjusting for intentional homicide only gets 12,000/yr, and just for fun those scary black rifles that are “the problem” are only used in ~500 deaths/yr. Furthermore their study discounted entirely what is likely the most common form of defensive gun use, defensive display, in which the sight of the firearm is enough to scare off the attacker. This means that Harvards 100,000 estimate would be low if we included them. Still though, even with them pretending defensive display is all lies, 100,000>60,000>12,000>500, meaning guns are used far more for defense than murder or suicide.
What can we take away from this? Well, if 100,000 is SO infrequent that we can categorize it as a “myth,” what then is 60,000 or 12,000 or 500? If 100,000 dgu is a myth, so to must be our 60,000 gun deaths at 40,000 less.
Yeah I ain’ reading that. But I’m happy for you though, or sad that happened.
Cool lmao.
Bro this is literally standard practice. Most planned large events get all kinds of police presence. Including snipers and plainclothes.
So that makes it okay to have riot police intimidate these protestors and have snipers point weapons at peaceful protedtors?
Listen, we know what’s happening there but the snipers aren’t the problem…
I am angry a little because everyone consumes these sort of news without question.
Then someone does a post, most upvoted comment is seen as most true and correct and it all poisons our reality. Spoofing. Matrix.
Lol this is lemmy, Tienanmen Square “never happened” here. According to .ml, hexbear, and grad, anyway…
Edit: lmao, point proven tankies!
If you’ve ever been to a professional sporting event, you have almost certainly been at the business end of a rifle scope.
Wait they put up snipers in my bedroom whenever it’s time to “do the hanky-panky”?
Nah, they just have Google monitor you.
Because when my HPP and me get down to bizniz, you’d think it’s a professional sporting event, because of the passion dripping from the walls!!!
Yeah, I’m not even from the USA and even I know that you guys do that a lot.
I’m really not sure a sniper would be super useful in that situation. Obviously, different environment than the 2017 las vegas shooting, but I don’t really think that those snipers on rooftops would really be effective at all in taking out a committed shooter, which could just shack up in one of the many buildings with windows facing the crowd and fire down or into the crowd. Maybe in that case, a sniper might be able to peep out where the shooter is, or might be able to get a shooter on the way in or out, but with the level of people there and the level of surrounding buildings, I’m really not sure they’d be able to do very much. Obviously if someone just walks in off the street and opens up on everyone, then a sniper might be more effective, but I dunno.
It seems insane to me because I’ve only met armed police once in my life, and that was at download festival in the UK after a spree of terrorist attacks across the UK and the rest of Europe.
That was quite entertaining however as the armed police kept having to run away from drunk people who wanted pictures taken with the guns.