Let’s not give it to them freely though. If they’re going to lie, make them lie, don’t let it be the truth, it makes their position a lot weaker. There is still hope we can stop them. The fact they want ICE around the polls for intimidation means they’re worried about us voting, it’s not over yet. They don’t have all the power

In part I was responding to the thread as a whole, not just you so sorry for any confusion. You’re right, Mandela was saying that only after a certain point a few more extreme measures were required. I just don’t want people playing into the hand of the current administration. If they have to lie about what the protesters are doing then their position is a lot weaker than it would be telling the truth. Yes they’ll try and spin the narrative, but we’ve got a better shot not freely giving it to them

Yes unfortunately that is the reality. You have to remember how little awareness the average American has. If we start acting violently that’s all they’ll see, but if we stay non-violent in our civil disobedience it’s a lot harder for them to dismiss us.

I am arguing that I don’t think it’s a good idea for people to go out and start violent riots right now

We won’t get the support we need if we go out there and start setting things on fire. Most of the country doesn’t even know what’s happening right now. We have to get them on our side. Don’t have too much faith in the people to do the right thing. We have to convince them first

You cannot deny that Ghandi was effective in ending British oppression in India and that Mandela was effective in ending apartheid in South Africa and that MLK was effective in winning civil rights in the US through means of nonviolent civil disobedience. It’s like you’re arguing that if you’re not being violent then you’re doing nothing. Our rights have whittled away over the last 50 years because the masses have been complacent and allowed it to happen. That has nothing to do with violence or nonviolence even. It has to do with people being apathetic. Now that things are coming to a head we stand to gain more support from the masses through non violent civil disobedience. Just because you are not throwing bricks does not mean you aren’t stopping the powerful from doing as they please

King’s commitment to nonviolence never wavered. He truly believed in peaceful disobedience. He became disillusioned with gradually progressivism but that’s not the same thing at all. Of course Malcom X still rejected nonviolence but his philosophy is a dead end and it was already falling apart in his lifetime

What are you talking about? The most successful movements in the last hundred years were peaceful protests. Mandela, Ghandi, MLK, were they just trying to appease the upper class??

You are right! We ARE long past the point of excuses. We NEED TO PROTEST. The people still haven’t taken to the street in mass though. The point is we make it harder to convince more and more people to join in and give their support if we turn violent. We have to win the hearts and minds of an apathetic population that has allowed this to happen in the first place. We gain nothing but more justification from the government to shut us down if we turn to rioting

We still have to get out and take to the streets, we have to be disobedient, but we cannot turn violent. You’re ceding them the power that there’s no point if they’ll do what the want anyway, but the reality is that if we keep sustained peaceful protest we’ll get too much support from the rest of the country for them to continue. If we turn violent the “nonpolitical folk” will be able to keep their heads in the sand longer

There were far more ICE agents deployed in Minneapolis than there were in Portland. Why was the image of the self immolating monk so powerful in protest to the Vietnam war? Malcom X’s ideology actually softened over the years before he was killed, he even saw that all out violence is not the answer. Peaceful protest is the only way this ends well for any of us

It’s a lot easier for them to get away with it if people are rioting. Peaceful protest creates more energy from the masses

Yeah but have you seen how public sentiment has shifted thanks to the heroic protesting from the people of Minneapolis? They have managed to keep it peaceful and they’ve gotten the broad support of the country and ICE is being forced to pull out. If they had started rioting the government would’ve used it as the excuse to ramp up and assert control over the chaos. They WANTED people to riot. Don’t take the bait! Don’t cede them all the power. This is a battle for the support of the people

Peaceful protest is the only way to get this done. Do you not understand that you’d be giving them exactly what they want?

Ok I get the joke but we have to stay peaceful in our protesting. Rioting is what they want. It gives them the excuse to launch full on martial law. Don’t give them the excuse

The internet is becoming so grossly corporate anyways that if AI is the thing that finally pushes us all back outside maybe it’s ultimately a good thing. There’s only so much recursive enshittification a person can take before they walk away. We really saw the golden age of the internet come and go, sad to see it happen

“The moral arc of the universe is long but it bends towards justice” I think it’s a beautiful idea and maybe it’s ultimately true, but at the very least it’s not linear. The rise of Christianity seems to be a reaction against the domination of Rome over the known world, the oppression of the powerful over the weak, the rich over the poor.

Hunter gatherer societies tend to be rather egalitarian, so the rise of “civilization” would certainly be a backwards step on the path of waking to the social concept of life. Rome brought about such an extreme of the animal life that Christianity rose to balance it out, yet of course it corrupted and misused and now today it stands to be lost entirely, destroyed of any of the good in it by those that use the shield of “Christian” to restore a dominating animal life back over the world.

In my estimation we are forever caught in an endless loop with a rising and falling of our empathy and “divine awareness” as a species and we will go on and on until the race of men is ultimately extinguished.

I personally feel that this life is a hell from which we have to try and escape but that’s just my own intuition

The family tree, all time honored as it was, had put forth, at no period, any enduring branch

Too fucking relatable. It’s nice zoning out every once in a while with a game, but it too easily replaces time spent working on yourself and growing. I think the current place we are in in our culture leaves us starved for a life lived full measure and we can somewhat scratch that itch with games, but ultimately it’s no real substitute and without finding a way to really actualize our own potential into the real world we set ourselves up for disaster and deep deep regret and dissolutionment