I mean those people who you look at them and they have the body and responsibilities of a 43 year old but then you hear them talk about other people or other ethnicities or other situations that people are experiencing elsewhere and the person had might as well be a remorseless 3 year old that was raised wrongly… The thing that floors me is hen you meet a very old person, Im talking in their 60s or older, and they start spewing some of the most idiotic, narcisisstic garbage a person could ever talk of… ‘How have you spent all these years learning nothing?!’
Is it really THAT hard to break free of the chains of your terrible childhood and develop just a little empathy , understanding and humanity towards others? I DEFINITELY didnt have the best childhood seeing as how I was bullied and ostracized for decades , even by my parents lol, but I came to realize that ‘Hurt people will hurt people.’ so why am I going to go out of my way to be selfish and make more people who are hurt? But on the other hand I see , and Im sure most of you also have seen, that humans are not a very logicsl species sometimes. We have the potential to be more logical than Einstein but it doesnt always play out like that… We as a species do A LOOOT of things based on anti-logic, emotions, our pains, our traumas, or our cognitive distortions and this in turn sometimes creates more ‘hurt people’ …
Im not saying that humans have gotten worse over time cause anybody here can open up wikipedia and read about all the awful things we used to do to each other , if anything we have gotten better just a little bit. But why are there STILL in the year of 2026 people who choose to just not ‘grow up’ ?
TL;DR too many adults , and even seniors , Ive emcountered have illogical and sometimes psychopathic opinions . Why do so many people choose to not grow up and be more understanding?
What is your take on something like this?
Edit: from what Im seeing there are couple takes I ld agree with 5o explain this phenomena
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there could be neurological disorders like CTE , schizoaffective disorders, etc… that causes an older individual to do and say unusual things …and hurtful things. Cures for these are barely existent so if someone suffers from them? Theyre just out of luck and hvlave to hope they dont do anything too hurtful
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The overal lack of mmental health care , mental health breaks, mental health interventions , and psychiatric medication access globally. Some people are lucky and are born in a region that has such things easily. …others sadly arent…
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Some people get stuck in a cycle of self destructive cognitive distortions that impairs their ability to grow. there is the possibility that it is a reactive defensive mechanism that one has in response to our very flawed societies that humans have evolved from thousands of years that although it was probably w useful reaction thousands of years ago the current world is very much differenr than it was thousands or years ago . So these cognitive distortions become detrimental more than they are beneficial. Very few people are born innately malicious and/or with an antisocial personality disorder , but a person can clearly become both of these things with enough prompting. And not all humans are the same we all have different genetics ans different stories , all because one oerson reacts in a healthy and self-loving manner to malicious stimulation that doesnt mean all other peoole will do the same. This also has the chance to lead to echo chambering or self imoosed isolation and both if these makes recovery and interventions from external sources more difficult. So basicallt both nurture and nature can play a role in the self-destructive practices abd thought process a person conducts in response to the sad and lonely society of today.
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Humans havent really evolved to or adapted well to modern society. Like empathy of other groups or for other groups of people on the other side of the planet may be difficult for some people to understand and learn. Humans have created and stuck tio ‘outgroups’ and ‘ingroups’ for millenia and very rarely have humans acknowledge the truth that ‘We are ALL part of. the ingroup since we are ALL humans’ . I dont think this completely excuses a person to treat other groups of people in awful ways though.
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Soceties that have encouraged ignorance all in the name of listening only to a few politicians and very rich people will clearly create more and more ignorant peoples. And this clearly occurs tor the detriment of those people who cjoose to be ignorant. Being very rich or a politician doesnt mean that you kniw everything that each human needs
The short version is that life is too easy.
Long version is that humans evolved in an environment where death could come from every corner you walked around. The people who made the world something that should revolve around their ideas of threats and fear were the ones that survived. Since the invention of civilization, those threats have become much more abstract but the human brain hasn’t changed that much. We keep looking for threats, but they aren’t there. Instead of accepting that they don’t exist, people decided that they must be hidden around every corner they can’t see around.
Curious why you expect it to have gotten better by the “year of 2026” when our genetics hasn’t meaningfully changed for a million years. Our bodies are predisposed to form tribes, hoard resources, and perpetrate atrocities that only exist at a scale enabled by civilization.
It won’t be solved until we wait a million years or use a CRISPR-like technology to fix our flaws.
As a species, we are not prepared for wide empathy. The farther some event is from us, the easier it becomes to dissociate from. What can compensate for this is nurture and culture but self reflection is a very dificult, even painful, exercise.
And to use your words against yourself, logic takes no part in this. Logic just denotes a sequence of events or concepts that, for the person experiencing or describing, hold value. Sometimes, we are able to correctly convey our logic to others and they gather a semblance of understanding on our thought process but that is all. Logic is not a sacred cow.
I personally find amusing hearing someone stating they act solely based on reasoning, as if that exempts them from their basal and underlying emotions.
We are not rational nor logic. We spend a lifetime mostly reacting to what surrounds us, droning through life. Existing, taking hold of your own conscience is a difficult task. Teaching others to do it, even more.
And you wonder why all you describe happens?
I’ve read your post and some of your comments below the post.
I love you, bro. (No gender assumption.)
You are a good person. Be proud of yourself. ❤️
Thank you for your kind words ❤️🩹🫂
and yes I am a bro lol
I dunno. Probably lots of lead poisoning, micro plastics crossing the blood-brain-barrier, other harmful stuff in our city-atmospheres and of course social media (for “old” folks facebook, for young people Instagram and tiktok). All of has fried our collective brains and tendencies for what you described increase because of it. But maybe that’s just an excuse to ascribe what’s wrong with people to something external.
they were raised during the boomer/gen x era, mysogyny and racism, and most of all ELITISM is quite abundant and pervasive back then. and on other platforms, the parents seem to resent thier children for not finding a job as soon as they graduated, they still think wallking in person to hand in your resume is still possible. and cant imagine Online applications to be that difficult. especially with all those layoffs, there were so many posts like these.
I agree with your edited version. As for causes, being a good parent seems to be one of the hardest things to do. To be honest it’s the main reason why I never wanted to have kids.
Your view of what adulthood should be is ironically child-like itself. There is no standard. You will lose a lot of energy focusing on how your way is obviously the right way and everyone else is wrong.
well you could be right but I feel like my outlook on adulthood cant really be compared to any others right now since I dont have a ton of experience on what a healthy adulthood oughta look like. Im only 30. When Im 55 or 75 I think Il bee far more qualified to speak on what a healthy adulthood looks like.
Im not putting you on the spot of anything but do you have anythings to recommend that I can compare my outlook on adulthood to to others’ to demonstrate the flaws I have on my outlook please? Its ok of you cant recommend anything other than me just talking to more adults. I know that I am heavily inexperienced because ya Im only 30 year olds and 30 year olds tend to not be the most experienced or have very good complex analysis of how a healthhy adulthood oughta look like.
Also yoyusaid that there is no standard. And yes I agree, I dont think there is a formal standard. BUT Personally I feel that there should be some sort of ‘social-contract-based’ or ‘informal’ standard as to whst a healthy adulthood oughta look like or look similar to. Like being a diehard nazi in your 60s or even your 40s or 20s is supposedly a good standard for adulthood for some…why? 🤨 I think most would disagree with that. The way I see it is that there are many things that the law allows an adult to do and get away with HOWEVER I do think that there should be certain things that are ‘informally-enforced’ by the social contract mosts adults have agreed on. Like being a fully grown adult who was caught in the Epstein Files or being an unafraid die hard nazi who has committed many hatr crimes should, in my opinion , cause an adult to be treated in 'certain ways ’ by the followers of the social contract , until they begin the process to pay reparations to affected groups of their barbarism. Am I wrong?
I read that casey anthony gets bullied occasionally because of her crimes that we ALL know she actually committed(pfft girl stop lying . We have you !) and…I have no problem with I read about there and I dont see it as a problem until she confesses completely and takes full accountability for all she has done. But when I read stories of what happens to her nowadays…I have no problem with what I am reading as well. I wrong about this? I would highly doubt that Im wrong about this.
How are you any different from Christians trying to impose their god’s morality and rules on everyone else? You want people to be punished for things you personally consider to be immoral. This isn’t about adults acting like adults. You’re conflating maturity with morality, and you want to be the judge. I do believe you’re wrong about this. It may feel logical to you, but bullying someone until they confess to some moral failing is not logical to me, because morality is subjective. I understand if you feel like our current justice system isn’t enough, but that’s a separate issue. From your comments, it seems you want to go much farther than that and actually police the way people think.
Good point.
I should clarify cause Im kind of an idiot and what I wrote is wrong.
What I meant to say is that I feel that a person should be informally punished by for what WE KNOW THEY DID and IF IT WAS HEINOUS and IF THE FORMAL ‘JUSTICE SYSTEM’ (if you can even call it that nowadays) DOESNT PUNISH THEM.
Like we all know that casey anthony did it but she never confesse and made an attemot t make reparations for what she did . So do I see a problem with her being currently informallypunisished ? No.
Same can be said about trump or Anyone else in the Epstein Files. We know most of them are guilty as sin but will the formal ‘justice system’ punish Any of them?.. HA! only the ones who are too poor to bribe their way out of it. So these who will escape formal punishment have the thumbs up to receive any informal punishment that We The Workers see fit
I’ve noticed that there are two distinct mindsets in people who have been hurt in one way or another.
The first is “I had it bad, so I don’t want others to experience the same.”
The second is “I had it bad, so why would anyone else have it better?”
I think they genuinely feel cheated when someone else gets something they never got. And they take it out on the people who did get that thing instead of holding the people accountable who denied them that thing. Even if they didn’t deserve to get hurt, that is a shitty outlook to have on life and it’s not going to do anyone any good.
I’ve seen both of these views. In my experience, the second often follows the first. After the person has tried to be an amazing person, often for years, and then their entire society refuses to let them.
Personally, I was the kind person who didn’t want others experiencing what I did. My entire community beat the hell out of me. Over and over and over. People don’t like you being kind.
They make up rumors about you having bad intentions, and that you’re a bad seed. They judge you by every little mistake. They deny you opportunity after opportunity.
Honestly? I was raped at 10, locked in a clothing chest around 5, beaten non-stop because I liked to draw and write, slung around the house like a ragdoll, strapped to a chair with duct tape, called a pedophile at 15 – because I hugged my little brother in school, told I was a school shooter. My own family kept their kids away from me. I talked grown ass adults through suicide. I was friends with kids who had none. Only for those kids to turn around and join in. Teachers did it too, to be popular with the kids. Even my own family. I’ve had food dumped on me. Drinks poured on me.
This was 24 hours per day. 7 days per week. All because I could be gay. Whenever I tried to fight back 4 or 5 of them would gang up on me. When I finally got friends, it was usually because a teacher bribed them. They’d wait until we were alone, act like I was the best person in the world. Whenever they’d see me in public, they’d yell out, “hey buddy.” Then go back and start rumors on me. The 2 people who finally decided, and were allowed, to come over were forced to sleep outside.
It was always something stupid: my voice was too high. I didn’t shave my legs. I did shave my legs. I had the wrong color shirt. I was too quiet. Etc.
Then I was preached on 3 times per week, about how I was going to Hell. But not directly. I’m not even gay.
I wasn’t allowed to have friends over. I wasn’t allowed to visit friends. They could be “bad influences.” I wasn’t allowed at school functions. I wasn’t allowed to go outside. I wasn’t allowed to modify my bedroom in any way. If I did, the modifications were thrown out. As a 12-year-old dude, my room looked like a 50-year-old granny’s. We lived in the middle of nowhere, and they wouldn’t show me how to drive. I loved wiring shit up and electronics. That was all thrown away, became it was untidy.
They had me taking care of my siblings (feeding, administering meds, getting ready for school bathing, etc), 2 bedridden grandparents, talking my normal parents out of suicide. I never developed essential social skills, and thought something was wrong with me. That I was broken in some way. How could so many well-integrated people be so wrong? I was afraid I was going to break others. And didn’t want to talk to them, in case I did. So, I started looking for what broke me. I needed to make sense of it all and process.
At 33, I broke away. And I still do not have proper social skills at 37. I am completely isolated. I know it’s not my fault. So, whose is it?
All I wanted were friends to go to concerts with, go fishing with, work on cars with, camping, hang-gliding, do random shit with.
I’ve seen a few therapists: the first one pumped me for information, then fed it to my parents who were the issues. The second told me my life was a lie and that my emotions weren’t real, triggering 2 decades of PTSD. And the third was broken by the shit ton more stuff that I haven’t included here, got stuck in a 2-hour-loop of, “it’s not your fault,” then didn’t want to see me anymore.
I begged God, for 30 years, to make it stop. God never showed.
I was reading at a college level in elementary school. I passed a mock NCLEX and ASVAB without even studying for either one. My religious mother, who thought the Internet was from Satan, wouldn’t let me have it to work from home while caring for my grandmother. So I had to sneak into her room at night and use her hotspot for a $60/hr job. Then the Internet was cut off when I tried to go to college, mid-semester. I owe $2,000 in student loans. And now my head is so full of anxiety, I can’t keep my ideas straight anymore.
If it isn’t my fault, whose is it? I am 37 years old and, because of bad social skills, I have never had a community, despite not wanting to harm others my entire life, but all of my society wanted to harm me.
And then people tell you to just get over it. My heart is failing.
Also something that embitters me about society js that we as people have such an easy time treating someone like a monster and eveb turning them into a monster…
But then when this hurt person wants to find resourfes and people to deal with their trauma , trauma that theyve recently have realized has broken them thoroughly and makes them think in awful ways, such as a community or a ‘tribe’ of their own to get connected to , very cheeap publicly funded mental health interventions and medications we typicaally dont have those things for that person or each of those rhings is available in varying amounts for different people.
Humans NEED community. Humans NEED physical affection. Humans NEED appreciation. Humans NEED occasional vulnerableness. Humans sometimes NEED mental health care. Humans NEED a lot of things that many of our current societies says that a person should feel guilty that they need these things. What I mean is I find it oodd that many humans are treated in inhuman ways but then mostt people in society act surprised when that bullied or impoverished or ostracized person in psrticular acts in inhuman ways. We are not allowed to create a monster then be surprised that we have created a monster…
But then my question becomes why do most adults just accept this modern sick society that creates monsters and acts surprised when these same harmed people act out in monstrous ways? Where have been the mass rebellions for change that most adults should be partaking in if they want to see permanent positive changes?
“It is no measure of ‘health’ to be seen as ‘healthy’ in societies that are so profoundly sick” -Kishnamurti
Im very sorry for your pain. If itll help I dont think youre as sick as those who treated you in disgusting ways thought. I dont think youre a monster all because you desire what humans need which is community.
I don’t need therapy. I needed a group.
I wasn’t the one that was damaged. Society was.
Damn Im very sorry. Youve been through way too much 🫂
Thank you for saying this.
I think that theres another aspect to this flawed outlook on life that I want to point out . Like if someone feels cheated by others who got something they didnt get and they feel bitter about this and then they make efforts to harm and exclude those who got that thing, doesnt that make them get trapped in sort of a cycle where they continually isolate others who got that thing , even the people of that group who could genuinely help them?
Like if you get bullied by a bunch of White people simply cause youre not White and you decide to just completely ostracise all White people? THAT is a bad plan. Youre ostracizing an entire group of people , there are many different types of people in each groups of peoples. There are clearly many White people who knows that all non-White people are their equals and treat them as such. If you feel bitter towards all White people you will miss out on important life lessoms that some of them can teach you and even some important life lessons you can teach them. If you feel saddened cause your mom or dad or both said that they will never raise you or see you again when you were younger , being bitter towards people who had been raised by both parents is bad cause some of them have important life lessons about being raised by both parents that you may never have had heard otherwise.
You can even apply this lesson in other ways. Like all because some Muslims are hardcore Saudi-prince-loving wahhabists that doesnt mean you should ostracize them all. All because some French people support the current colonization of Kanaky that doesnt mean all French people do so ostracizjng all french people is nonsensical. You could apply this to any group. A few bad apples doesnt ruin the fresh bunch.
I used to have A LOOOT of internalized racism. I saw Black people as not worthy of listening to even though I myself am Black. I basically saw only White people as worthy of listening to about ANY topic. You should have seen my jaw hit the floor when I realized that there were Black people out there with doctorates who were equally as qualified and knowledgable of certain subjects as any equally qualified White person. I was even more shocked when I started watching videos of Nlack people who went through similar experiences as me and were talking in depth about it!
I got into watching bodycam footage on YT recently and like half of these are 20 to 40 year olds crying for their mom, demanding the officers call their parents, etc. and unable to take responsibility for their actions, it’s absolutely wild how immature some people are.
forget only the bodycams have you seen the true crime stories that come out on some of these old idiots after they get arrested and charged?
Theres that one guy who drove his car through all those people during that parade before he got arrested . Apparently he had impregnated a 12 year old before that… Ah! darrell brooks was his name. He really thinks that his scizophrenia diagnosis will allow him to act like an incorrectly raised 12 year old forever and be forgiven EVERY time… 😐
I remember seeing another bodycam of a man who was in his 40s who when he was getting arrested for taking inappropriate pictures of young girls at a Krampus event he said ‘My mom’s a lawyer! Im calling my mom’ to the officers… 😐
…Like…dude…hello?! GROW UP!
I highly doubt you’re a paragon of empathy or understanding, and your post here is very clear evidence.
You want to dunk on them to boost your ego. You’re just like them, just younger and more arrogant and blind to your own prejudices, biases, and abuses of others.
well youre not wrong . I am DEFINITELY not a paragon of empathy . And yes I do have my biases, but almost all humans have some biases right?
But as for my ‘abuse of others’ ?.. Wot? I swear Id never. I never want to hurt innocent people and further ‘enshittify’ the world that is already shitty.
One of the great struggles of humanity is ‘cognitive load.’ Thinking, even if you have a very efficient brain, takes effort, and more advanced thought requires more effort. In hierarchies, part of the power dynamic consists of the displacement of cognitive load. The higher powered individuals don’t think about what the lower powered individuals think, and, with enough power, not even the collective. The lower powered individuals, though, must consider the desires of those with higher power in order to make their way through the world. They have to expend effort, to carry the cognitive load.
Those adult children you are talking about are those who have not had to carry the load. People generally don’t expend effort they are not forced to, so why would they go to the effort of considering the effects of their actions on others when their life has taught them that’s the job of those lower than them? Or that they can do what they want without expending the effort and not only not be punished, but get ahead in life because their society runs on psychopathy?
Wow this is an interesting take and I have to say I agree.
what do you get when you spend decades eroding a social system that prunes itself and replace it with a social structure that allows inclusive shameless adults that receive little to no punishment?
EXACTLY!
Fuck capitalism and crapitalists!
I must say that your post itself does not come across as particularly empathetic. Calling people “negative IQ narcissistic garbage” is rather harsh and dehumanizing way to describe them, even when their behaviour is genuinely harmful or immature.
People do not simply choose to become the way they are. If you had inherited their genetic predispositions, been raised by the same parents, and grown up in the same environment, you would very likely think and act much as they do. Treating individuals as the ultimate, free authors of their character and behaviour is an error in my view. This is not an excuse for harmful actions, but it does call for more compassion and a clearer recognition that most of what separates us from them is luck rather than personal moral achievement.
The fact that some of us managed to develop greater empathy or self-awareness is largely a matter of circumstance. It is not a virtue we can fully claim credit for, any more than others can be fully blamed for failing to escape the patterns they inherited.
I have never seen anyone use the term “IQ” in any fashion who wasn’t some incel tier troll. OP seems to fram thmselfe as not, and it may be just an innocent use, but it feels like a vague tell.
Also, in my experiencr, essentially anyome who would actually be “high IQ”, does not give a shit about some baseless number to represent intelligence, because they know what constitutes intelligence has like 100 different angles. Its easy to be “smart” on dozns of areas and completely dumbshit on dozens of others.
ya youre right I should probably remove that.
I only used negative IQ because I remember seeing it from a meme and it stuck with me cause it was kind of funny lol
I do think the number is almost meaningless cause it only measures your comprehension of what the IQ test asks of you and not your comprehension of more complex things like different human connections and different things the human body can do when it comes to things like dancing , or reaction time or calisthenics for examples.
This is a well-thought out, balanced, and nuanced take that I completely agree with. Although I admit, I do sometimes fall short of the ideal when faced with bigotry. It can be hard not to dehumanize those who would dehumanize you - but that creates an inescapable cycle.
Unless it was edited though, OP didn’t call people “negative IQ narcissistic garbage” but was referring to their words. I think it’s an important distinction - the words we choose to speak can be harmful, and it’s something we inflict on the world. Even if the way a person arrives at a hateful conclusion is defensible, it doesn’t make their views any less contemptible.
We’d probably both agree that “negative IQ” is ableist language, and using that kind of language as a pejorative is wrong. OP could do better next time, and after reading your exchange I think they probably will
I guess I can agree with you. My view from all the pain and Ive experienced from others’ mean acrions or words or their unusual ostracization of me was “They can be mean to me all they want. The world sucks enough already. Why would I want to make it suck even more?”. But maybe Im just speaking from my narrow perspective . All because I was able to turn around the hate I received around into a little bit of love and self-love maybe I was more priveleged than others to a point where I had the capability to turn my hate around because I receivced more guidance on how to do that from my therapist and teachers than others did.
Though I still have a hard time accepting that most fully grown adults who choose to do or spew hurtful things have NO agency in what they choose to do. Certainly there has to come an age where you just ‘wake up’ and realize that ‘Hurt people may hurt people …Therefore why the hell would I deliberately hurt more people?’. Right?
Well, rather than wondering about how they have lived this long and still haven’t learned, that can be flipped the other way around too: they’ve acted this way for 60 years already. The patterns of that behaviour are quite deeply engraved at that point and even more difficult to get rid of. Older people are called stubborn for a reason and there are sayings about that too such as “an old dog doesn’t learn new tricks.”
However, as I said, it’s not to excuse that behaviour but rather just approach it from a different angle. When a person behaves that way asserting blame as if they could have acted otherwise is unproductive. The focus should in my opinion be in understanding that this behaviour is usually a symptom of some deeper issues. These people are in pain whether they know it or not.
Makes me think of a certain person at work who was always in a bad mood and lashing out. The one time he then took it too far so I asked him to step aside but rather than telling them off I asked whether I had unknowingly done something to them and told how disrespected I felt by the way they behaved. Well, turns out it had nothing to do with me. They were embarrassed and apologized and ever since that they have acted super nice towards me. I wish this reflected on how I always handle conflicts, it doesn’t, but this time the more gentle approach completely de-escalated the situation. I can well imagine how that could’ve gone completely differently had I taken a different approach.
But again: stressed out, underslept, overworked and then tipped over by a minor inconvenience. The reasons behind this kind of behaviour are usually rather mundane.
Well, rather than wondering about how they have lived this long and still haven’t learned, that can be flipped the other way around too: they’ve acted this way for 60 years already. The patterns of that behaviour are quite deeply engraved at that point and even more difficult to get rid of. Older people are called stubborn for a reason and there are sayings about that too such as “an old dog doesn’t learn new tricks.” However, as I said, it’s not to excuse that behaviour but rather just approach it from a different angle. When a person behaves that way asserting blame as if they could have acted otherwise is unproductive. The focus should in my opinion be in understanding that this behaviour is usually a symptom of some deeper issues. These people are in pain whether they know it or not.
Ah yes! Good ooint. It could just be that theyre conditioned to act or react in those ways to certain , or sometimes even all, stressors in their life . Like their oast trauma has been so thorough and long that theyve become conditioned in this way usually through no fault of their own. I dont think we should excuse toxic behaviours though I was watching this one Dave’s Lemonade episode about a man who did something absoutely heinous but after hewas caught and convicted there was a ‘secondary trial’ for him that assessed whst in his life led to him becoming the type of man that he was…and…yup! His childhood and even his adulthood too surprisingly clearly explained how he became the way he became. Ill try to find thr video… Edit : Here it is: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Otz6Ydf9Avk
But again: stressed out, underslept, overworked and then tipped over by a minor inconvenience. The reasons behind this kind of behaviour are usually rather mundane
Good point. Well I guess I am speaking from a point of privelege here again cause usually when I feel this way I can take a moment , or even many moments, to just cool off , understand what is making me mad, understand ehat happened to me, and try to find ways to overcome it. Others may not have this luxury…
People are social creatures. They follow peer pressure. If you want to make the world better, one of the ways is to spend the effort to be better, to work on being kind with other people.
I had two different work friends, years ago. Both of them had low to mid grade homophobia. They’d say things. But after a couple years of me working on them, they stopped.
Was it worth it? Maybe. It was harder than just writing them off, but I like to think as a result of my spending the time with them, they hurt people less.
I remmember I used to have a racist coworker and I tried to be kind to him and help him understand that he cant keep saying and doing such things to his fellow coworkers cause they werent ‘White Enough©®™’ for his liking. …Was it worth it?..No…Cause he got worse… Somehow
I got fired anyways so I have no idea how he is nowadays. Maybe he’s turned around…hopefully…
