Trump went from the “because you’d be in jail” guy I loved to this “letting Hillary get away with her crimes is barely scratching the surface of everything I can do to fuck the concepts of law and justice”
So what happened to my fellow supporters? I’m still here but it’s like all the others vaporized? Or I was the only one the whole time, but then why would Trump lie for my support when my one vote wasn’t gonna decide that first election?
This seems really weird
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I’m sorry to say this, but it sounds like you got duped, hard.
When estimating support numbers, remember the 90-9-1 rule. In opinion creating spaces, most of the Creators and Contributors are interested actors. What you thought were large numbers of “fellow people”, were most likely opinion creators, grifters, and a small number of genuine believers. The bulk of real people, were most likely the lurkers whom you never saw or heard from, and who likely held all sorts of different opinions.
Your one vote was barely relevant, the important part was to plant a series of messages in the minds of those silent 90%. Once the goal has been achieved, and the opinion space no longer needed, those genuine believers get discarded, and the next opinion creation space is spun up with the same formula.
Thanks for bringing up the 90-9-1 rule, that does make it make more sense how the demographics feel so different from how they felt.
On the other hand, I’m pretty sure people in the room cheered when Trump said “you’d be in jail” at the debate. Would those people cheering still cheer for whatever trump is saying now, or what happened to all that public anger?
Edited because I got sidetracked from my train of thought originally
Those people will cheer for anything he says because the content doesn’t matter, only tribalism.
This is the most bizarre post I’ve ever read.
Like, this is either the beginings of a maga pivot to centrism campaign or you were an edgy teenager in 2015 who went into a coma and just woke up.
username with a Palestinian flag in it, asking where your fellow Trump supporters went?
this is some truly bizarre engagement bait to be posting on xmas eve. go hug your family and/or touch grass and/or masturbate.
I didn’t support Palestine when I supported Trump
Is that the key thing? Are my fellows unable to face admitting what they’re doing to the kids in Gaza and just doubling down in a guilt complex about it? Your comment made me think of that possibility
Lemmy is probably not the best place to expect responses from Trumpers. Your history seems to indicate you hold some leftist views, so maybe some reflection on or engagement with people you’re in community with will help you more, but Trump was never going to accomplish anything you likely wanted him to. He’s a grifter and always was. I’m not familiar with the “you’d be in jail” quote, but presumably most people running for office and threatening to jail others are probably not going to be accomplishing things that benefit most people.
I don’t know why you supported him, but he’s a bad guy with no actual morals and his administration is being run by bad people with possibly even worse morals.
I feel like everyone who was on the Donald Trump subreddit back then would remember “because you’d be in jail,” it was memed on for years. It was a moment in the presidential debates where he gave that as a response to Hillary talking about how bad his Presidency would be
I was probably the most leftist person in there (until I got banned before Trump’s eventual Twitter ban) but right wing people were also eager to see politicians go to jail. Idk where my fellow memers went for there to be like, no split-off branch from people reacting to Epstein like “ohhh he can’t send opponents to jail because he’d go too, that’s fine then”
I was not on that sub because in case it wasn’t clear I’m not a trumper, but if you were in it for the memes, I hate to tell you but a lot of that was foreign influence or people with no actual political views other than lulz. Both those groups have moved on to even more meme-able things with even worse more extreme views. I don’t think people with coherent political positions want “politicians to go to jail”, I think most people want criminals to be held accountable. People rallying around jailing people in general are not my vibe, but maybe it’s worth reflecting on why you think certain people should be jailed and others shouldn’t. Trump is a felon many times over. You can read or watch plenty on what he’s already been found guilty of, and plenty on things he was able to get out of, so maybe jailing politicians has just fallen out of favor with his die hard fans. If you believe that the Epstein files are real, how do you square that with the president calling it a hoax and all the waffling and lying the administration has done about them? The die hard fans are taking the line that it’s all a hoax and the rest are ignoring it because it’s easy to do, just like they ignored all of the other issues with him and his administration. Only you get to decide what you will do with that information. I hope you’re able to find your way out of it.
When the white house just has a long stream of war criminals in it, wanting criminals held accountable is wanting politicians arrested.
I just still don’t get where the “people like me” are that were clearly joining a movement en masse to bring down war criminals, not support another one. The idea they were all foreign influencers makes no sense. Some “for the lulz” but that doesn’t explain 0 people left who actually were on board
You can’t expect a war criminal to hold war criminals accountable. What’s happening with the Venezuelan boats is criminal. He obviously doesn’t care about criminality. I think the issue is that most people that actually cared about criminality were against him in the first place. He has been on record many times about how little he cares for the rule of law, so that dissuaded most people who earnestly cared about the law from supporting him to begin with.
I’m not saying people like you don’t exist at all, but most people that cared about accountability were against him, and the ones that for some reason still supported him are likely now too deep in the Trump mindset to speak against him, or have been convinced that anything said against him is a lie. It has to be said that a lot of people you potentially perceived as “like you” were also grifters, bots/foreign agents, or just trolls, and many of all of those groups have pushed even further right. If you were on Reddit, feel free to go back and see which accounts you saw posting or you were chatting with. See what they’re up to now, if anything. It’s possible I’m wrong and the community you’re referring to is still over there and still feels the same way you do. Otherwise, there are only so many explanations as to what could have happened, and I’m open to hearing other theories.
I wonder if a bigger part of it than we’ve realized is them being brainwashed to start believing everything said against him is a lie, one of the things you mentioned
I assume many of the people from that subreddit back then are no longer on reddit, but surely they can’t all have moved to somewhere dumb like truth social either, so I also wonder if there’s a particular place I’m not realizing a lot of them went
Yea, as someone with family and acquaintances that are into Trump, I have generally only seen them become more fanatical.
If you end up finding it, I would be interested to know where. If you remember to, please feel free to come back and let me know.
Thanks for the discussion. I hope you can find something useful in it for future discussions with those who still blindly support Trump 🙏
Hired trolls to feed the propaganda machine, fueled by QAnon. Face it, you were duped harder than most people throughout history.
Mind you, you’re an inbred American, so it makes total sense.
Most Americans aren’t either. It’s an education issue. But that sort of response will inoculate many from becoming more educated. Keep in mind this is something Canada and plenty of other places are struggling with as well. There’s a global propaganda issue.
I agree with you on the education being lacklustre in a large part of the world, but I disagree with the response. Why should I be tolerant of intolernat people? Fight fire with fire and break their wills.
Removed by mod
Lmao
What are Hillary’s jailable crimes?
I’d argue rigging the election against Bernie was treason, but that didn’t actually seem to be what Trump was saying.
People like me would want to see Hillary in jail, but realistically expect an outcome more like “ok Hillary you can get away with it due to all your supporters and legal loopholes, but a lot of people who worked with you are going to jail and we’re closing those legal loopholes so politicians like you will start going to jail in the future”
I say “people like me” but the weird thing is it’s like I’m the only one that remembers this, when I’m pretty sure I remember there being millions of us
Oof you got played hard. Not only did Clinton not do anything criminally chargeable. The DNC could have legitimately told Sanders to go pound sand and not allowed him to be a candidate. And there would have been no crime. The parties can and do set their own BS rules in their primaries.
Republicans attack on public education for the last half century payed off big in people like yourself. You still don’t realize what a fool they made of you and how much they laugh at and ridicule people like yourself behind your back. Yet you still feel more animosity to rudderless corporate Democrats than the people who used you.
To be clear all national and state level parties need to be wiped out. Democrat, Republican, etc etc. They have too much power and are too insulated to represent anyone but themselves. Change doesn’t come from the top down. If it wasn’t for ranks of sycophantic sociopath’s being cultivated for decades, and installed in offices nation wide. Trump would be a sundowning lame duck clown. As he should be. Instead, millions of ignorant Americans were duped into voting for the worst possible stewards of their interests.
You’re smoking something, might want to look at my profile more instead of making stuff up about me
Lol the only thing I’m smoking is the truth. And your profile confirms it. Good day.
Incorrect but good day I guess
Stop being a ratgoof skinner.
I commented elsewhere in the thread, and I hate having multiple threads with the same person, but would you mind explaining how she rigged the election against Bernie and why that is illegal?
I’m a Bernie supporter and you can see in my comment history that if anything I’m a Bernie Stan, but what “Hillary did” mostly relates to how the DNC operates. The only reason the DNC has so much influence is because of our election format which favors a two party system. The best way to resolve that is by changing how voting works (ranked choice etc) which is mostly supported by democrats not republicans. Additionally, Hillary won the popular vote. Do you not think it’s a problem that the electoral college was able to invalidate the will of the majority of the population? Is that not a more direct threat to democracy, especially as states attempt to gerrymander more?
The most illegal part was the tampering with voter registrations, but how do you prove Hillary’s actual involvement in that?
The more easily proven parts are not considered “jailable” but should be, e.g. propping up a 2 party system and constantly lying to the public about stuff like how it works and why.
But Trump didn’t seem like he would prosecute any of that, he seemed happy to keep it buried from public view. The hope was more like he would shake up the system with investigations and arrests about stuff like her emails, and people like Hillary would stop being untouchable, even if she personally avoided jail by being from before Trump’s time.
As for the popular vote, too many people just vote for whoever the people around them are voting for, and modern technology makes it too easy to reproduce. Therefore, using the popular vote would just mean whatever area gets the most population density, they’ll be in charge of everyone else until the areas split apart over disagreements.
So the question then becomes whether we should have a union, or just split apart over disagremeents. I’m conflicted on that, because I don’t want to have to deal with rednecks, but I do want to force rednecks to deal with me. They don’t let me have healthcare, but I don’t let them buy and sell slaves.
Would you be able to share a link to the information you’re referring to regarding voter registration tampering, even if it does not directly mention her?
I’m not sure what lies specifically you’re referring to about how she spoke about the 2 party system, but it seems you recognize that’s not an actual crime, so you’re probably not expecting her to be jailed over that.
There were several investigations into her, and none were able to actually substantiate anything. Here are two BBC articles: This one showing that even after they went after Clinton for it, they did not hold themselves to the same standard: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46271021
This one stating that even if it was just a her issue, it’s not going to result in jail time (emphasis mine): https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-31806907
The State Department inspector general report, released in May 2016, found that Mrs Clinton’s email system violated government policy and that she did not receive permission prior to instituting it - approval that would not have been granted had she asked. Such transgressions, however, do not constitute criminal conduct.
FBI director James Comey announced the results of a separate FBI investigation on 5 July and concluded that that while “there is evidence of potential violations” of criminal statues covering the mishandling of classified information, “our judgement is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case”. It referred the matter to the Justice Department, which closed the case against Mrs Clinton and her aides with no charges.
The State Department has since resumed its investigation into whether Mrs Clinton or her aides violated government policy in their handling of classified information. If it determines that they did, the punishment could include a formal letter of reprimand or loss of security clearance.
I think there’s a bit of a disconnect because Trump, even before his first term, but definitely after was clearly ok doing illegal things. Other than him saying he wanted to lock her up and that being something you wanted, did you at the time or now perceive him to be honest and someone who cares about the rule of law?
I disagree about your population density comment, but we can just leave it there since it’s more tangential.
I think it’s somewhat telling what rights you associated with the parties. Do you think you’d want to end up in the republican or democrat portion if the union split?
NY where I lived at the time appears to be the most media-covered case with the voter registrations - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/officials-investigating-why-126000-voters-were-purged-from-ny-rolls
I personally knew someone that went to vote in the primary and was told he couldn’t because they deleted his voter registration.
If “no reasonable prosecutor” would charge Hillary for mishandling classified material, that seems like it’s because everyone in the White House always does it. Hence why it would make sense to imagine Trump ultimately landing on a compromise of “you get away with it because you were before me, but we’re closing the loopholes so nobody else can get away with it again.” Instead, he seems to have just done all the same shit Hillary did, and more.
I did think Trump cared about some idea of law or order or justice back then. I still think he’s “honest” by politician standards, in the sense that he sometimes gets a kick telling the truth while leaving lies to a hint - e.g. he’ll say “carbon footprints are a hoax created by big oil” and only imply the part about how he wants you to believe that means we should burn more carbon. I still find that interesting, but not enough to forgive him turning into a less drugged version of Hitler. He still just blatantly lies plenty of other times, like any politician (he was supposed to not be one of)
I think I’d be pretty dead set on starting my own third split off place if the country did split. I find Republican and Democrat policies unlivable, so it would probably seem like an opportunity to get away. But the fight would then be trying to make sure people from red and blue land are allowed to migrate to ours while the red and blue land owners would increasingly try to lock everyone into wherever they were born
i distinctly remember the outcome of hundreds of hours of foaming-at-the-mouth congressional conservatives desperate to charge her with anything and not being able to find a single law that was broken. policy? definitely. unfortunately thats not illegal
with the current administration not only is all policy merely decoration, but most laws also.
they and the supreme court are abusing the slow churn of government to dissolve the republic. good job, guys.
