This constitutional change is too much. We don’t want a body we didn’t elect having a voice to parliament.
This constitutional change doesn’t do nearly enough. We don’t want a toothless voice that can’t really affect anything. We want a full treaty.
The first camp I can’t find common ground with. Every Billionaire in the country is an unelected individual who has a pretty big voice to parliament with their political donations and nobody bats an eye. But how dare we give a voice to the most powerless people in the country!
The second camp, I see their point. They’re worried that this will be an end to discussion regarding indigenous issues. They don’t think the voice is enough. They’re right - if you read the Uluru Statement from the heart, you’ll see that the voice is the first step towards a treaty. I personally don’t think this topic will come up again for a generation if the no vote wins, so I can’t really agree with them at all.
I accept that there are people who genuinely believe in the ‘progressive no’ vote but I still think if you want a treaty and indigenous sovereignty recognised the Voice is a great opportunity for that.
I on the other hand think it will basically stop that pathway in its tracks and will be pointed at for generations to say “look what we already gave you! You’re in the constitution and have a voice! Problem solved”.
We don’t change the constitution often or lightly. When we do it should be for something meaningful that makes an actual immediate difference. Another advisor position doesn’t do that in any way.
This sounds a lot like the ‘Yes republic, but not like that’ position of 2000. And here we are 23 years later, and the entire republic debate was dropped.
I believe the same thing will happen with a no vote on this. “We had a whole referendum on this question and the people voted no”.
They should have come up with a better proposal before bringing it to a referendum then. Give me something that meaningfully and permanently provides actual change for indigenous people. Another advisory position is pointless.
Also I believe a huge part of the swing towards the No vote is due to the over the top aggression and abuse that’s thrown at anyone that even dares to question voting yes, being called racists and the like. The communities in here are as guilty of it as any. All that type of activism does is turn people against your cause.
It’s quite funny how you’ve gone from complaining about “perpetually offended progressives” a couple of months ago, to constantly crying about your own hurt feelings in every single thread about the Voice. Also very interesting how this matches up exactly with the Conservative No’s campaign tactics at the moment. Yet once again, we’re expected to believe you’re here to debate in good faith.
Funny how once again a staunch yes voter comes stomping in aggressively telling the no voters they’re just racist etc, literally exactly like I just said 😂 . You couldn’t have proven my point any better.
While there is plenty of scope for justifiable criticism about the form of the amendment that’s going ahead, it’s too late for that argument to achieve much. The wording is set, the date is set, the taxpayer money is already being spent.
Since it is going ahead anyway, do you think voting no will make governments revisit further steps in the future faster than a yes vote?
Personally, I doubt it would. Progress is more likely to be gained by having something, no matter how small, already in place so that a future amendment can build on it, rather than trying for something more substantial from scratch.
Honestly I don’t think voting no will hold it back more than voting yes. I think Yes winning would just allow the slacktivists to put the cue back in the rack and pat themselves on the back and say they solved racism so don’t need to do anything else. Either way I’m not expecting anything more to be done for a decade or 2 anyway unfortunately.
The no argument was basically:
FEAR CHANGE! IF THINGS CHANGE THEY WONT BE LIKE THEY WERE AND YOU SHOULD BE AFRAID OF THAT! BOO!
There are two “no” camps:
The first camp I can’t find common ground with. Every Billionaire in the country is an unelected individual who has a pretty big voice to parliament with their political donations and nobody bats an eye. But how dare we give a voice to the most powerless people in the country!
The second camp, I see their point. They’re worried that this will be an end to discussion regarding indigenous issues. They don’t think the voice is enough. They’re right - if you read the Uluru Statement from the heart, you’ll see that the voice is the first step towards a treaty. I personally don’t think this topic will come up again for a generation if the no vote wins, so I can’t really agree with them at all.
The Voice is one pathway to treaty.
I accept that there are people who genuinely believe in the ‘progressive no’ vote but I still think if you want a treaty and indigenous sovereignty recognised the Voice is a great opportunity for that.
I on the other hand think it will basically stop that pathway in its tracks and will be pointed at for generations to say “look what we already gave you! You’re in the constitution and have a voice! Problem solved”.
We don’t change the constitution often or lightly. When we do it should be for something meaningful that makes an actual immediate difference. Another advisor position doesn’t do that in any way.
This sounds a lot like the ‘Yes republic, but not like that’ position of 2000. And here we are 23 years later, and the entire republic debate was dropped.
I believe the same thing will happen with a no vote on this. “We had a whole referendum on this question and the people voted no”.
They should have come up with a better proposal before bringing it to a referendum then. Give me something that meaningfully and permanently provides actual change for indigenous people. Another advisory position is pointless.
Also I believe a huge part of the swing towards the No vote is due to the over the top aggression and abuse that’s thrown at anyone that even dares to question voting yes, being called racists and the like. The communities in here are as guilty of it as any. All that type of activism does is turn people against your cause.
It’s quite funny how you’ve gone from complaining about “perpetually offended progressives” a couple of months ago, to constantly crying about your own hurt feelings in every single thread about the Voice. Also very interesting how this matches up exactly with the Conservative No’s campaign tactics at the moment. Yet once again, we’re expected to believe you’re here to debate in good faith.
Where exactly am I crying about my hurt feelings?
Funny how once again a staunch yes voter comes stomping in aggressively telling the no voters they’re just racist etc, literally exactly like I just said 😂 . You couldn’t have proven my point any better.
???
While there is plenty of scope for justifiable criticism about the form of the amendment that’s going ahead, it’s too late for that argument to achieve much. The wording is set, the date is set, the taxpayer money is already being spent.
Since it is going ahead anyway, do you think voting no will make governments revisit further steps in the future faster than a yes vote?
Personally, I doubt it would. Progress is more likely to be gained by having something, no matter how small, already in place so that a future amendment can build on it, rather than trying for something more substantial from scratch.
Honestly I don’t think voting no will hold it back more than voting yes. I think Yes winning would just allow the slacktivists to put the cue back in the rack and pat themselves on the back and say they solved racism so don’t need to do anything else. Either way I’m not expecting anything more to be done for a decade or 2 anyway unfortunately.
second camp has a point…but it’s still not a good reason to vote no.
There is no good reason to vote no.
if albo goes ahead and legislates it anyway after a failed vote, you reckon they will still think that?