If you keep patronizing such businesses, why would they ever do that? They know they don’t have to in order to get your money. And it is the same with your own near-minimum wage job. You are working against your own best interests. Nothing will change while people are willing to give their money to companies that don’t pay their workers a fair wage.
Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against tipping if the person did a good job, but a company trying to guilt trip me into giving them a mandatory tip? Nah, that’s bullshit, it’s essentially “Oh, we can’t pay our employees enough, would you mind helping 🥺”. Outta here with that.
I think it is the case of “you think in the right direction, but you don’t do it all the way, so now I’m gonna attack you over this until you stop doing anything”.
Rewarding the employer for underpaying the employees is not, in any way, the right direction, though? Not tipping is just telling the employees “I don’t care if you get paid, so long as I get what I want”
How? Those people just aren’t going to get the money. Its not like the company is going to pay them extra because you didnt tip. Theyve already decided that the wage will be low
Your logic doesn’t really make sense
There is a minimum amount of total money the employee could make before they’d go and work somewhere else instead. So if, hypothetically, everyone in a country where tipping is common even for non-exceptional service just stopped paying tips, hospitality employers would be forced to pay more to stay competitive with other non-customer-facing industries.
Of course, a drastic shock to the economy like that would probably cause a lot of upheaval, as some employers struggle to accept the new norm.
However, the same thing would work even if the change was slower - e.g. if 5% of people didn’t tip, and did it very obviously and vocally, and then the practice spread as it reached 10% and so on.
Obviously it sucks for the employees who get hit by the first few non-tippers, but over the long term it would be for the better for worker rights. So I could absolutely see it working.
That said, I say this from a country where tipping is not the norm (except maybe the occasional ‘keep the change’ for exceptional service), and the law and expectation is that the most prominent displayed price is the total price you pay - and people react very negatively towards businesses seen as trying to bring in American style tipping culture.
You don’t get it, I think? The point is to get the workers to quit or protest because they don’t get paid enough, so that the place can increase the prices instead so they can pay their workers. If the place is still providing a nice service or good food or whatever it may be, you don’t want it to go out of business. Just make a worker-positive change.
I’m trying to help the establishment, by changing their ways. Not by bankrupting them. And if they just keep changing waiters, surely the quality of service will go down and Darwin takes care of the rest.
I can not. Can you give an example of boycotting a business causing that business to raise prices to pay their employees a living wage? If so, I guess let’s go with your thing.
Most people won’t quit, especially in the US from what I know. If they are already underpaid, how can they quit? And if pretty much every place treats waiters the same, what choice do they have?
If you keep patronizing such businesses, why would they ever do that? They know they don’t have to in order to get your money. And it is the same with your own near-minimum wage job. You are working against your own best interests. Nothing will change while people are willing to give their money to companies that don’t pay their workers a fair wage.
Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against tipping if the person did a good job, but a company trying to guilt trip me into giving them a mandatory tip? Nah, that’s bullshit, it’s essentially “Oh, we can’t pay our employees enough, would you mind helping 🥺”. Outta here with that.
Right,so don’t use those businesses. You give them no reason to do anything differently.
All you are doing is helping to maintain the status quo.
I think it is the case of “you think in the right direction, but you don’t do it all the way, so now I’m gonna attack you over this until you stop doing anything”.
Not paying tips is a good start.
Can you give an example of that ever working? Because boycotts sure as fuck work.
Rewarding the employer for underpaying the employees is not, in any way, the right direction, though? Not tipping is just telling the employees “I don’t care if you get paid, so long as I get what I want”
How? Those people just aren’t going to get the money. Its not like the company is going to pay them extra because you didnt tip. Theyve already decided that the wage will be low Your logic doesn’t really make sense
There is a minimum amount of total money the employee could make before they’d go and work somewhere else instead. So if, hypothetically, everyone in a country where tipping is common even for non-exceptional service just stopped paying tips, hospitality employers would be forced to pay more to stay competitive with other non-customer-facing industries.
Of course, a drastic shock to the economy like that would probably cause a lot of upheaval, as some employers struggle to accept the new norm.
However, the same thing would work even if the change was slower - e.g. if 5% of people didn’t tip, and did it very obviously and vocally, and then the practice spread as it reached 10% and so on.
Obviously it sucks for the employees who get hit by the first few non-tippers, but over the long term it would be for the better for worker rights. So I could absolutely see it working.
That said, I say this from a country where tipping is not the norm (except maybe the occasional ‘keep the change’ for exceptional service), and the law and expectation is that the most prominent displayed price is the total price you pay - and people react very negatively towards businesses seen as trying to bring in American style tipping culture.
I would not, that’s… what I’m trying to imply here… Yeah, businesses who don’t pay their employees enough bad.
You don’t get it, I think? The point is to get the workers to quit or protest because they don’t get paid enough, so that the place can increase the prices instead so they can pay their workers. If the place is still providing a nice service or good food or whatever it may be, you don’t want it to go out of business. Just make a worker-positive change.
It takes everyone to fix these issues. It is not a one-sided job. Every time you give these establishments money, you help them.
And there is no shortage of replacement waiters out there for the ones who quit.
I’m trying to help the establishment, by changing their ways. Not by bankrupting them. And if they just keep changing waiters, surely the quality of service will go down and Darwin takes care of the rest.
Can you give an example of this “I give them money and expect their employees to quit unless they get paid better” strategy working in the past?
Don’t you think people boycott for a reason?
I can not. Can you give an example of boycotting a business causing that business to raise prices to pay their employees a living wage? If so, I guess let’s go with your thing.
Not Squid, but here’s one
https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/workers-united-the-delano-grape-strike-and-boycott.htm
Most people won’t quit, especially in the US from what I know. If they are already underpaid, how can they quit? And if pretty much every place treats waiters the same, what choice do they have?
They won’t have a choice but to quit if we all boycott the business either.