case 1: account closure

Cashless banks have no vault and no cash services apart from the ATMs. ATMs in Europe never handle denominations smaller than €20. This means that even when you are closing an account at a cashless bank, the most you can pull out is a multiple of €20 from your balance. The bank expects you to open an account somewhere else first and transfer the remainder to the other account. This is to keep people trapped in the banking system.

It seems to violate article 17 ¶2:

  1. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
  2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

This is not exactly up there with genocide and torture. It’s perhaps the smallest human rights infraction I can think of. But nonetheless, banks should be structured to comply with human rights no matter how trivial, no? It seems like even a cashless bank should (in effect) be required to keep some petty cash on-hand for account closures.

case 2: withdrawal limits

The same question applies for bigger cases. E.g. a bank (cashless or not) may have a daily withdrawal limit; weekly, and monthly too. Perhaps it is fair enough to have a fee or penalty for exceeding their limits, but if I understand correctly the bank has a human rights obligation to allow you to withdraw all your money. At the moment banks with limits simply refuse to execute withrawals that exceed their limits.

case 3: card refusal

ATMs and shops refuse people access to their money for countless arbitrary reasons.

  • When a customer’s ID card copy on the bank’s files expires, some banks do not bother to inform the customer or request an updated copy. They just freeze the account. When money is denied, the customer magically presents themselves to the bank to find out why. Cutting off access to funds is the bank’s way of communicating.
  • ATMs reject cards for undisclosed reasons. Sometimes a faulty AI bot falsely triggers and claims a transaction looks fraudulent. Sometimes ATMs are discriminating against people based on their origin (locally issued cards get a higher limit than foreign ones, but the ATM does not tell the customer what the limit is or why their transaction is denied).
  • ciferecaNinjoOP
    link
    fedilink
    122 hours ago

    The premise of the question is when the bank refuses you access to your money, which manifests in a number of circumstances. Receiving a check from the bank is useful only in scenario 1, and only possible in parts of the world that still have checks.

    • @superkret@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      321 hours ago

      You don’t have a human right to conversion of your property into a form that’s useful everywhere at any time, though.
      When you deposit your money in the bank, you accept some form of limitation in accessing your funds, in exchange for convenience, security, utility and possibly interest.
      This is all laid down in a contract, which you agree to.

      The bank isn’t depriving you of your property, you agreed to convert your cash into a legally binding right to access cash in the future, granted to you by the bank under certain circumstances.

      • ciferecaNinjoOP
        link
        fedilink
        121 hours ago

        The bank isn’t depriving you of your property, you agreed to convert your cash into a legally binding right to access cash in the future

        It’s not one or the other. It’s both at the same time. Consumers are deprived of their property as a consequence of that agreement. The bank in case 1 currently says: to get your €19.99 back, either open another bank account or fuck off (in so many words).

        From there, it comes down to whether you can sign away your human rights.

          • ciferecaNinjoOP
            link
            fedilink
            121 hours ago

            If you see a value limit enshrined in the UDHR, feel free to quote it here.

            • @superkret@feddit.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              2
              edit-2
              20 hours ago

              It’s not about the value, dude. You aren’t deprived of your property, you still own that value.
              But you don’t have a human right to have it converted into cash at your leisure (and the bank’s effort) whenever you please.

              Your argument is like buying gold for $20 and then complaining about human rights violations if the seller doesn’t buy it back for $20 whenever you wish.

              If you want it now in cash, paypal it to a friend.