Norway? You think it’s only one or a few countries?
The UK, Australia, almost every European country. All of them have a lot of structures made possible by socialism. Even America has some socialist constructs.
I think you might be thinking of “communism” which nowadays means the opposite. Like how neither Russia or China are actually communist. Both have an authoritarian state and lots of capitalism, with a tiny bit of socialism.
I mean, the actual historical definition of socialism is “collective ownership of the means of production”, and the actual historical definition of communism is “a classless, stateless society that will inevitably follow capitalism, according to Marx”. The USSR only ever claimed to be working towards communism, and referred to themselves as “socialist”.
Nowadays the words can mean something different, depending on who uses them.
If you mean you were using the historical definitions, a social safety net is not a means of production. Government-run factories or mines would be socialist, although some purists insist that it’s not socialist until there’s no private ownership left at all.
If you mean you were using the popular definitions, sure, people like government services. Volt also likes government services.
Norway? You think it’s only one or a few countries?
The UK, Australia, almost every European country. All of them have a lot of structures made possible by socialism. Even America has some socialist constructs.
I think you might be thinking of “communism” which nowadays means the opposite. Like how neither Russia or China are actually communist. Both have an authoritarian state and lots of capitalism, with a tiny bit of socialism.
I mean, the actual historical definition of socialism is “collective ownership of the means of production”, and the actual historical definition of communism is “a classless, stateless society that will inevitably follow capitalism, according to Marx”. The USSR only ever claimed to be working towards communism, and referred to themselves as “socialist”.
Nowadays the words can mean something different, depending on who uses them.
Well yes, but you misjudged what I said as I used the correct terms.
So my point is again, there are many people that believe in socialist constructs, and are therefor partly socialist.
If you mean you were using the historical definitions, a social safety net is not a means of production. Government-run factories or mines would be socialist, although some purists insist that it’s not socialist until there’s no private ownership left at all.
If you mean you were using the popular definitions, sure, people like government services. Volt also likes government services.
Services fall under “Means of production”. So yes, these safety nets are part of socialism. Taxes going back to the people as well.
I don’t want to try and figure out the perfect semantics for all of this.
You’re right, it’s not worth it to argue about definitions any more.