- cross-posted to:
- news@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- news@hexbear.net
Chicago Police and the FBI are investigating if saboteurs placed bugs in a breakfast buffet prepared for delegates at the Democratic National Convention on Wednesday.
“Multiple unknown female offenders are alleged to have entered a building…and began placing unknown objects onto tables containing food,” the convention’s information center said in a statement. “The offenders are believed to have then left the area. One victim was treated and released on-scene. Along with CPD, FBI-Chicago is assisting in the investigation.”
I got no beef with people voting for Democrats in the general election, even though I disagree with their choice, because it doesn’t affect the outcome of anything. My beef is with these delegates, these people in a position of influence and power.
Of course we shouldn’t accelerate the “train”, I cannot stress enough that I agree with that statement and that accelerationism is bad, but it is my view that
I fear that you’re mistaking your own pessimism for absolute truth, but I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.
What, in your view, needs to be done?
Indigenous Action did a great write-up on this topic. Although to be completely honest, the point of this thread was really to condemn the DNC delegates specifically. Actually, I brought up voting at all in this thread in response to the suggestion that I am:
As a poor grad student, and sibling to two lovely LGBT POC for whom I would literally kill to protect, this is a particularly offensive implication (from a different user!) that I often see bundled with pro-electoralism rhetoric, so I preemptively brought in Colin Ward’s article against voting.
In the large, abolish all authority and hierarchy by popular revolution. If that is impossible, then approximate it as best as possible in the real world using a basis of popular liberatory actions emulating the end goal.
In the small, these delegates could use their power to physically and logistically disrupt the DNC until at least the US ending weapons transfers is secured. For everyone else, support protesters for Gaza in your life, show up to the protests if you can, do direct actions [1] if you can … do nothing if you have to, but most importantly, don’t cooperate with the war machine!
I hope this clarifies what I meant by saying:
Because while voting doesn’t necessarily hurt direct action efforts [2], it doesn’t help either. It’s just a completely independent class of activity. It’s like if, on a typical x-y plane (where the x and y axes are assumed to be orthogonal), we need to move in (let’s say) the positive x direction, and people keep spamming inputs in the y direction.
[1] Just the first part of section J.2, not including J.2.1 and onward. The rest is supplementary.
[2] There is an argument to be made (and I believe the article I cited makes it) that activism for voting takes time and energy that would otherwise be spent on direct action. Also, technically speaking, voting does literally take time away from direct action for the amount of time you’re waiting to vote and actually in the booth, but I’m an engineer so I’m willing to neglect small-valued terms 😆.
When fascists take power it’s not unheard of for them to line up commies and anarchists against a wall and shoot them. I’m all for ideological utopianism, I’ve lived on intentional communities in the country and anarchist collectives in the city, but preserving your moral superiority is little comfort when you and your family are staring down the barrel of a fascist’s gun.
The Answer.
From the song’s lyrics:
That’s kind of an obnoxious response when you yourself said:
(emphasis mine) followed by:
Like you basically asked for my answer after saying you’d be willing to be convinced. You asked “what needs to be done?”, and I replied with things that I think need to be done. If you didn’t ask, I would have kept my mouth shut because frankly I’m pathologically disinterested in telling people what to do, probably to a fault. If you weren’t convinced then that’s fine, but it’s just kind of obnoxious to ask for an answer and then chide me for giving you my answer.
Yes, and that’s why we need to prepare ourselves for when they do, which they WILL do regardless of who gets elected as the figurehead.
I’m not [2]! I have explained over and over again all throughout my responses in this post’s comment section that I have very practical motivations for why voting is a waste of time. I encourage you to go through my comment history and see what I have said to others in this thread.
Yo literally the first thing I posted in this comment section was a meme dunking on the delegates and their misery, which is bar none the most engagement I have received on any comment and almost all of it negative. No one here thinks I’m morally superior. And in case you were wondering, I don’t like me either.
So let’s explicitly do away with the moral superiority pretense [1].
Yes, exactly, that’s why we need to build our community defenses against these fascist pricks before they kill us, keeping in mind that we’re in a liberal dominated community on a “civility-at-all-costs” instance where we’re not allowed to talk seriously about revolution!
But as I have said to other users, particularly the comment you initially replied to:
So go vote Democrat if that makes you feel safe, I’m not going to bring it up again because it doesn’t matter, but I’m not gonna pretend that it’s helpful.
But also keep in mind that these are the assholes who platformed a cop over a Palestinian in the middle of their genocide…
Again, I invite you to reread what I’ve commented to you so far, and to go through my comment history and see what I’ve said to others.
[1] Really, my position is, boiled down, that supposedly “practical” solutions that violate common morality (for example, letting people die to save money in *insert industry here*) are not really practical at all. This inextricably couples practicality to morality.
Frankly, as a human actor who fails to always act practically, I acknowledge that for similar reasons, sometimes I also fail to act morally, i.e. in laughing at the pain of other humans because they happen to collude with an evil institution. Hence why I reject the idea that I am morally superior, and that I have asserted as such anywhere in this comment section.
And in the sense that the means should reflect the ends, I admit that I haven’t lived up to my own ideals, out of anger and irritation at the constant stream of bullshit being foisted on me and everyone I know by these very Democrat ghouls.
But I don’t believe that I need to be a perfect moral actor to speak out about Palestine and the fascists at the DNC!
[2] For similar reasons as those in [1], ideology should be coupled to practicality, which itself should be coupled to morality. Hence why I’m not interested in anarchism as a utopian ideology where anything is prescribed, but as a practical solution for humanity to overcome capitalism.
I didn’t ask for your answer, I asked for your opinion. I already knew that you didn’t have the answer. Nether do I.
I was young, idealistic, autistic, and naive myself, once, long ago. Still autistic, but less young, idealistic, and naive these days. I tripped over my ideals and ethics for a long time before figuring out how to survive in this capitalist hellscape. I’m still not very good at it, and my path needn’t be yours. I won’t shove it down your throat.
I wasn’t sharing that song with the intent to be adversarial. I shared it because Bad Religion has been a very helpful band for me throughout my young-adulthood, and their lyrics continue to help me to this day. No offense intended. My opinion of what this song meant, for example, when I was young, was vastly different to the meaning I take from it now.
I’m very familiar with anarchist theory and the praxis thereof. I read all of the links you provided and I don’t wholly disagree with the bulk of it. Please don’t get me wrong.
BUT. Refusing to vote against fascists because of ideological distaste is indeed moral superiority, whether you want to admit that or not. People can die.
I have no love for Democrats, and I don’t in any way identify as one. I do, however, have a great love for game theory, and game theory tells me that there’s only one correct decision to make where voting in the USA in 2024 is concerned. I will continue to take direct action to further my own personal beliefs and ideologies, but I won’t let that stand in the way of doing things that I find morally distasteful (such as voting for a Democrat) to keep fascists out of power.
I hope this doesn’t come across as condescending. I don’t mean it that way but people often tell me I’m being condescending. I wish you all the best in life. Please let me know if there’s anything I can do to help you in any way, and don’t hesitate to reach out if you want a conversational partner or a sympathetic ear. I’m always open to discussing the world with intelligent people.
If you’re interested in communal living or alternative lifestyles (at it pertains to anarchist communities), I’m happy to help there, as well. I think I still have some friends that know folx at Emma Goldman Finishing School in Seattle. Admittedly, I don’t know if they’re looking for any new members right now, but I’d be happy to put a word in for you.
Amen.
Any recommendations for game theory resources? I’ve been putting it off for a while.
Don’t you just hate it when that happens? I’ve been there so many times. I feel you.
Will do. This honestly means the world because I don’t have a lot of players in my court.
Unfortunately, I’m kinda stuck on the “poor grad student” path. Got oodles of loans to pay off, but I also got tons of new tools and solutions to technical problems
that I’ll likely never be allowed to work on. IMO I’d be more useful paying their bail funds as a successful engineer than living there and being a nuisance…because I am a nuisance to live with lol. I dormed for a few semesters and I can count on two hands the number of times I ever talked to my suitemates or neighbors, and one of them was a really nice dude.Sorry for my delay in response. I try to limit the amount of time I spend on social media as it can be harmful to my mental health.
As for good game theory resources, it’s going to somewhat depend on your existing math literacy. I’m going to paste a list (below) that I’d found on reddit when I was first exploring game theory about 10 years ago. I haven’t read all of the suggestions.
I also recommend checking out MIT’s OpenCourseWare game theory polisci course. I found it quite interesting.
I do mean it. I’m not always fast to reply, but I’m around if you ever want to have a chat about anything! The grad student path seems like a worthwhile pursuit and I wish you all the best with it! As for the social aspect, I can relate, certainly. I was pretty unsure that things would work out when I set out to try alternative living systems in my early 20s. Being around like-minded people ended up being extremely valuable for my social skills, in the end.
Maybe when you’re done with your coursework you can investigate the opportunities available. I lived for a while in a co-op house in upstate New York that would have been perfect for a young professional. Private rooms with common spaces and a nightly shared meal. Communal chores to be done, but income was not shared. Members had to have their own incomes.