- cross-posted to:
- donoperinfo@infosec.pub
- cross-posted to:
- donoperinfo@infosec.pub
Installing OS, 10 years ago:
Windows: click a couple of buttons enter username and password
Linux: Terminal hacking, downloading shell scripts from github
Installing OS today:
Linux: click a couple of buttons, enter username and password
Windows: Terminal hacking, downloading shell scripts from github.
Link to video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qKRmYW1D0S0
Linux is honestly great, literally the only things holding it back is programs supporting it. I’m painfully tied to a select few windows programs for work and hobbies, Wine tries its best but programs need to start supporting linux before proper adoption can kick off.
Lots more is holding it back, but I’d agree apps is a huge issue.
It’s still has significant issues with being end-user friendly. Needing to use command line for some things that should be a right click, not supporting right click, ambiguities galore when looking at a package repository, odd defaults in packages that one really wouldn’t expect to have to check (e.g. Selecting RDP connection in a Remote app, but it defaults the security to something other than RDP?)
As for apps, there’s problems like Libre Office devs refusing to support tables in the spreadsheet app, saying data management should be done with a database tool. While they’re not wrong, it takes a LOT more effort to setup a DB than to simply click “make table” in excel, which millions of people are familiar with. I create tables every day for run-of-the-mill stuff that simply doesn’t need a database. No one has time for that.
Or you plug in the most prolific wireless mouse on the planet, that’s been around since 2000 (Logitech), and it doesn’t work. Now pick any random piece of hardware and this is the stuff you run into. You go down the rabbit hole of searching for a solution
Or CAD (which falls in your app argument).
Linux is great for many things (things I run, UnRAID, TrueNAS, Proxmox, etc), it’s just not a great general purpose desktop for the average user, yet.
I understand the face value of it, but I really hate the argument of (basically) “Linux isnt going to take off until it just becomes Windows (or emulates it perfectly click for click)”
People always act like Linux is less buttery smooth two click accessible as a style choice, but cranking out a system like that and keeping it up costs money. If Linux dedicated to supporting every dongle on the planet themselves and all this other shiz, they’d have to monetize too.
So much less now needs the terminal. Personally, I don’t get why people don’t mind doing a search to find where windows hid some particular setting 3 submenus deep, but lose their fucking mind over the thought of doing a search to double check which command they need.
Linux doesn’t need to change, people’s priorities need to shift. This obsession with free services and not having to know shit about how shit works is how we got here, and shaking that is the only way out. For example, People will recognize that google is bad but if you point out you can get a domain and basic email hosting for $20/yr or whatever, its always “sucks teeth yeaaaaa but i dont have $20 for something like that and idk how stuff works” conveniently, you dont need to “yeaaaaa, but nooooooo”
Like, I hate cars, but I can’t imagine not knowing how to change a tire or my oil, etc basic stuff, but there are people who call AAA when they get a flat. Its nuts to me.
Linux wont take off until the friction for new users is low enough that the layman can resolve issues without resorting to techniques outside of their understanding and patience. Even as someone who uses linux, there are a ton of things that should have a GUI / just be a context menu entry. If you can get the same amount of work done with a button click rather than typing out a complicated command line string, you might as well use the GUI, right click menu, etc. and make it easier for the typical person. People these days can barely use tablets, and those already dumb things down to icons you tap. Unfortunately, making it accessible to the lowest common denominator is
what makes things populara major factor in making things popularBut you can do nearly everything with the GUI in Linux for a while now. The level of stuff you would need to use the terminal for is the same level on Windows you would need the command-line for, or (SHUDDER) the registry.
In fact, I would argue that doing things in Linux via the GUI is easier than even on Windows. I’m speaking as a user of KDE Plasma. I personally dislike Gnome.
In my defense as a AAA member, my super compact in-town car doesn’t have a spare tire, not even a doughnut.
Because they like to believe that the former is how smart computer users do things.
It seems that your issue isn’t the lack of tables in sheets but no easy way to create a simple db.
If we want to break Microsoft’s monopoly than we can’t do that by reimplementing Microsoft’s monopolistic ecosystem. And that creates the opportunity to correct questionable and arbitrary Microsoft decisions.
People are used to MS Office now but so were they used to typewriters a few decades ago. And if we’re changing OSes we don’t have to stick to one office suite.
A very simple problem that I absolutely hate in LibreOffice that I can’t find a solution for. When typing in a formula in a spreadsheet and then trying to autocomplete it, you cannot use ‘Tab’. If you want to do a vlookup and start typing “=vloo” and then hit ‘Tab’ it just changes to the next column. Working in Excel at work and then switching to Calc at home is jarring and terrible. That option can’t be changed as far as I know. It’s a complete dealbreaker for me between the two. Luckily I don’t need to do much in my personal life on spreadsheets anymore or need to use my home PC for work like I used to.
I’m sorry, your standard 2000 era Logitech mouse doesn’t work? I find that hard to believe. I’ve been using Linux as my only desktop Os and Logitech mice both since 2000, and if there is one thing that always has worked, its the mice.
I know right? I always bought Logitech specifically because it always ‘just worked’ everywhere for me.
Right click where? All major DE’s/WM’s implement stuff in their own way. The problem here is we don’t (and won’t) have a unified GUI that everyone uses, unlike the other two main OS’s. (Note: I don’t see this as a problem, more as a result of the FLOSS ecosystem being such a rich soil to build stuff on.)
I think Neal Stephenson’s In the Beginning was the Command Line has some valid points even today.
I mean… aren’t GNOME and KDE the two main GUI’s that you use?
There’s also Xfce4, MATE, Cinnamon which come ith man, OS installers as an option. Not to mention various smaller projects (e.g. LXDE or whatever the cool kids use nowadays). Personally I’ve been spoilt by Awesome WM since 2008 and can’t live without terminal/shell.
Sounds like you’re using a GNOME Desktop. You should give KDE Plasma a try instead. KDE Plasma basically gives you a Windows-esq experience without trying to install something like GNOME extensions.
For a regular user there’s not much point into going into the command-line anymore.
Sure but there’s also alternatives. LibreOffice doesn’t try to emulate Microsoft Office and they never really have. They won’t even try to be compatible with MS Office but rather they do with OOXML which Microsoft created for other Office suites to be compatible with it but then just never supported it very well. Some alternatives do however. WPS Office is perhaps the most popular alternative for this that does try to be compatible with MS Office and emulate its feel and features but ONLYOFFICE is also a contender.
Yeah, there’s still some other little things, but it’s surprising just how good the out of the box experience is, especially considering how little support the project has had from hardware and software vendors.
You can do nearly everything you need to via the GUI on the major distros (the ones that most people would use). There’s plenty of things on Windows you must use the command-line for.
And anytime you need to use the Run dialogue it’s the same argument. It’s the same “issue” of having to type instead of using your mouse.
And if you don’t need to use the command-line on Windows, it’s the registry. The awful, terrible, horrible, disgusting registry.
I’m not actually sure what on earth you mean with “not supporting right click”. Maybe you’re thinking of older Mac versions?
It has been for a while now.
Have you not heard of logiops? Sure it needs a bit of config file editing, but now I’m a click and a shake away from switching activities, and music and… Honestly, it rocks
And the reason those few programs don’t support Linux is because they don’t think we have enough users. So don’t hold up on using linux for that reason, it’s just a circle.
Yes, I’ve been trying hard to squeeze some linux into my life, currently trying to turn an old laptop into a little music machine for jamming with on me midi keyboard. I’ve run across quite a few issues just trying to get specific software working. I did cave at one point and try to use windows 10 but their installation media tool would fail every time I tried and the hardware is too old for windows 11 lol. It also triggered my gag reflex just thinking of all the ads it would feed me and all the bullshit I’d have to disable to make it respect my privacy. A number of different distros just worked flawlessly, though, and if all I needed to do was simple computer things and web I’d be laughing.
Some software is always going to have problems. Specially if the developer never had to work with linux.
In my case I think of it like my choice of Linux like how people may choose other lifestyle. It’s not about having superior experience in everything, but about general good experience and self satisfaction.
Just think of it this way, people in the 90s were happy with the softwares they had, so if some subset of software is not available to me it’s not end of the world. On the flip side many softwares are only available to me because of linux, my favorite is poppler-tools that allow me to merge PDFs and other pdf related tasks that in windows you’d need to pay Adobe for. If you compare and want things that you can’t have it’ll always make you unhappy. Everytime you search for a tool, search in linux websites or search source codes and you’ll be happy to ignore any tools that have a lot of licensing complications and windows only support. Not saying that’s the way to do it, but that’s how I do it.
This is where I’m trying to get to. Any new software I try to make sure is foss and linux where possible. It’s just a bit of a pain with music because there’s a lot of tools I’ve bought over the years and would like to continue using.
*Enough paying users
I have found that steam proton is a powerful wine machine. I’m not sure if it would help with any of the programs you are trying to run as it does have limits, but I’ve been shoving a ton of .exe files into steam and they usually work flawlessly.
i like using bottles or lutris for that, you can change wine versions and parameters easier in case something doesn’t work.
Lutris with wine-ge has made some things work for me that didn’t work with plain wine. So definitely worth it to try.
I wasn’t aware that was an option. Do you have a link on how to do that?
Steam can’t tell if something is a “game” or not, so you do it the same way as playing a non-steam game through the launcher
https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-add-non-steam-games-to-your-steam-library
Thank you very much.
Oh I had no idea that was possible, thanks :D
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