Giving them a chance to change is very different than granting leniency. She should have a serious opportunity at rehabilitation, but she shouldn’t be free in society unless you’d feel safe leaving her with your loved ones unattended.
We should grant mercy as often as we can, but it can never come at the expense of the innocent. I’d rather let a murderer who has genuinely changed die in prison than release a supposedly changed murderer who kills again. I’m certainly not volunteering to be that person’s neighbor if they’re released on good behavior.
We should grant mercy as often as we can, but it can never come at the expense of the innocent.
You’re presenting a pretty idealized version of our justice system, i think. A big part of why I support leniency is because of how often our justice system gets it wrong. It’s crazy to think that bad luck and low social standing can cost you most of your life. Any punishment meant for violent criminals will inevitably target a substantial number of innocents or nonviolent offenders. It’s wishful thinking to believe our justice system is usually “just”. We should strive to help the victims feel vindicates as much as possible, but it will inevitably, usually come at the expense of the innocent.
Yeah, I’d rather a known murder have the opportunity to change and potentially be a better person than to only let them rot in a fucked up punitive system.
A chance to change, sure. But it would be a mistake to pretend it’s not also a chance to kill again. And it turns out people actually can’t change, meaningfully, without remorse for their past deeds— And you can’t ever actually know whether they feel that. Mercy feels very good until you realize ten years later how much pain you could have avoided otherwise.
Also, you’re presenting a false dichotomy between “Set them loose on the world” versus “Isolation and torture for the rest of their life”.
It’s unacceptable to put innocent people at risk in order to give a convicted violent criminal mercy. It’s very easy to say they should be released on good behavior when you live hundreds of miles away. Unless someone is willing to live as that person’s roommate or neighbor, I think it’s completely hypocritical to chastise others for supporting incarceration.
Somebody’s damned no matter what. The victim deserves justice. The survivors deserve peace. The perpetrator deserves a chance to do better. And the rest of us deserve safety.
And these things cannot be reconciled. But I’m not willing to just give upon on any of them. So yes, if you could guarantee that it would give us a decent shot at having all of these things, I would be willing and honoured to live as that person’s neighbour or roommate. ..I’ve repeatedly made decisions before in my life that I think prove this, without even realising it. My life is worth less too if theirs is ruined, and I don’t actually innately care about my own safety if I think I can help someone else.
But nobody can currently guarantee that. So, I honestly don’t care anymore. Lock them up for good and throw away the key, or kill the survivors too and then kill me too for good measure; I don’t care. Just don’t make me choose who to damn, because what I want to see is for the victim to be alive, not avenged, and for the criminal to be helped, not brutally crushed— but we can’t have that anyway.
And Ffs, don’t let a known dangerous criminal have the chance to kill again and pretend it’s just mercy or kindness or whatever without a dangerous level of foolishness behind it while condescending at anyone who would want to see a more cautious approach. And don’t pretend that ruining one more life for some perverse ideal of “punishment” or revenge is going to fix anything either.
This is a shitty situation, and we’ve already lost to end up in it. People have already been hurt, and no matter what you choose, more people are probably going to end up being hurt before it’s over. Pretending mercy will magically fix everything is almost just as stupid and evil as pretending “punishment” serves any moral purpose other than cruelty.
…I’d want some kind of mercy for the man or woman who murders me. But it’s not my place to demand it for someone else’s killer, who may well go around being a threat to more and more people.
I don’t actually innately care about my own safety if I think I can help someone else.
It’s important that I address this if nothing else. If you truly want to be a help for someone else, you need to value your safety. You need to care about yourself. If you get killed helping person A, then what about person B or C who comes afterwards and would’ve benefited exceptionally from your help? If you want to serve, you need to serve yourself too.
Supporting the current method of incarceration should put you in it. The US should be tried for cruelty and inhumane punishments, per our “justice” system.
It just tells me that said person has no idea how terrible the system is, and that they have zero empathy.
Don’t think people can ever change, eh?
A punitive system does not a good society make.
Well said Yoda
Giving them a chance to change is very different than granting leniency. She should have a serious opportunity at rehabilitation, but she shouldn’t be free in society unless you’d feel safe leaving her with your loved ones unattended.
We should grant mercy as often as we can, but it can never come at the expense of the innocent. I’d rather let a murderer who has genuinely changed die in prison than release a supposedly changed murderer who kills again. I’m certainly not volunteering to be that person’s neighbor if they’re released on good behavior.
You’re presenting a pretty idealized version of our justice system, i think. A big part of why I support leniency is because of how often our justice system gets it wrong. It’s crazy to think that bad luck and low social standing can cost you most of your life. Any punishment meant for violent criminals will inevitably target a substantial number of innocents or nonviolent offenders. It’s wishful thinking to believe our justice system is usually “just”. We should strive to help the victims feel vindicates as much as possible, but it will inevitably, usually come at the expense of the innocent.
“Don’t kill people”
What? I’m outraged. Think of the poor murderers trying to be good people.
In this case, you’re betting future people’s lives on a known murderer changing.
Disclaimer: I’m neither for nor against that.
Yeah, I’d rather a known murder have the opportunity to change and potentially be a better person than to only let them rot in a fucked up punitive system.
A chance to change, sure. But it would be a mistake to pretend it’s not also a chance to kill again. And it turns out people actually can’t change, meaningfully, without remorse for their past deeds— And you can’t ever actually know whether they feel that. Mercy feels very good until you realize ten years later how much pain you could have avoided otherwise.
Also, you’re presenting a false dichotomy between “Set them loose on the world” versus “Isolation and torture for the rest of their life”.
It’s unacceptable to put innocent people at risk in order to give a convicted violent criminal mercy. It’s very easy to say they should be released on good behavior when you live hundreds of miles away. Unless someone is willing to live as that person’s roommate or neighbor, I think it’s completely hypocritical to chastise others for supporting incarceration.
Somebody’s damned no matter what. The victim deserves justice. The survivors deserve peace. The perpetrator deserves a chance to do better. And the rest of us deserve safety.
And these things cannot be reconciled. But I’m not willing to just give upon on any of them. So yes, if you could guarantee that it would give us a decent shot at having all of these things, I would be willing and honoured to live as that person’s neighbour or roommate. ..I’ve repeatedly made decisions before in my life that I think prove this, without even realising it. My life is worth less too if theirs is ruined, and I don’t actually innately care about my own safety if I think I can help someone else.
But nobody can currently guarantee that. So, I honestly don’t care anymore. Lock them up for good and throw away the key, or kill the survivors too and then kill me too for good measure; I don’t care. Just don’t make me choose who to damn, because what I want to see is for the victim to be alive, not avenged, and for the criminal to be helped, not brutally crushed— but we can’t have that anyway.
And Ffs, don’t let a known dangerous criminal have the chance to kill again and pretend it’s just mercy or kindness or whatever without a dangerous level of foolishness behind it while condescending at anyone who would want to see a more cautious approach. And don’t pretend that ruining one more life for some perverse ideal of “punishment” or revenge is going to fix anything either.
This is a shitty situation, and we’ve already lost to end up in it. People have already been hurt, and no matter what you choose, more people are probably going to end up being hurt before it’s over. Pretending mercy will magically fix everything is almost just as stupid and evil as pretending “punishment” serves any moral purpose other than cruelty.
…I’d want some kind of mercy for the man or woman who murders me. But it’s not my place to demand it for someone else’s killer, who may well go around being a threat to more and more people.
It’s important that I address this if nothing else. If you truly want to be a help for someone else, you need to value your safety. You need to care about yourself. If you get killed helping person A, then what about person B or C who comes afterwards and would’ve benefited exceptionally from your help? If you want to serve, you need to serve yourself too.
Yes, I have sorta discovered this the hard way recently, a couple times. It is why I am so angry about the whole thing.
Calm down, your making too much sense.
Supporting the current method of incarceration should put you in it. The US should be tried for cruelty and inhumane punishments, per our “justice” system.
It just tells me that said person has no idea how terrible the system is, and that they have zero empathy.
Oh, also: https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
Additionally, from the previous link
Look at the headline. The post. Pull your head out of your ass and delete this shit.
She fucking killed two men. Simple.
And?
Would you bet your life on it?
Yes. I do it every day when I drive.