Cool. We can’t control them, though, unless you’ve come up with a method of forcing people to vote. The democratic party campaign was supposed to get popular support. People were supposed to want to vote for them. That’s the whole point of political campaigning. The democratic campaign was wildly unpopular on every single point other than “isn’t Trump”. They cozied up to fascist talking points time and again, border military and ethnic cleansing. She barely even campaigned on any progressive points. It was a joke of a campaign.
The democratic party has lost touch with reality. They will welcome fascists in with open arms. Those images won’t ever be forgotten.
Had a big campaign but you can’t control media not reporting on that and only reporting on what she said of Trump.
And no- the whole point of political campaigning is to get people to vote FOR YOU. Not to vote AT ALL.
Again- Dems might be out of touch or blah blah blah but it doesn’t excuse people not voting. So again, let’s yell at the dumbasses who sat it all out too. Or else you’re just reaffirming they can do the same again and again and somehow only place blame on political parties. That’s pure garbage.
Youre still not getting it. Yelling at voters will get you literally nothing. If your goal is a future where Republicans don’t control America then you need people to vote Democrat. Yelling at them isn’t going to achieve that. Unless you’re going to go full doomer on me and say that you don’t care what happens anymore, in which case why are you even participating in this conversation?
Blame entirely rests on the democratic party. That is the reality of the broken American political system. No one else is responsible for their political campaign failing to gain votes. They were given warning after warning after warning, they didn’t listen. This is the outcome created by those politics.
I’m not yelling at voters. I’m yelling at non-voters.
And no, no it doesn’t. It’s fun though- leftists, progressives, pundits, etc. always blame the Dems. Republicans have no standard to be held to evidently. And non-voters are always absolved of blame too. We can’t possibly blame the millions of people who decide that fascism or abortion rights or any other thing isn’t important enough to get the fuck off the couch and do the bare minimum.
So yeah- you keep telling them that’s fine. I’m very sure that you never blaming them will mean the Dems will turn it all around on their own and things will be just peachy.
You seem to think getting angry at people motivates them to vote for you lol.
And yeah the word fascism means nothing to the average voter. They don’t even know what that word means. Calling Trump a fascist (which he is) is not a winning political strategy.
She didn’t lose because of non-voters. Nearly every single district in the country shift further red. Even deep blue districts had higher red turn outs. She lost the same way Hillary did. Yes sexism and racism had a role in it, for sure. But they also both lost because of absolutely abysmal campaigns.
Trump campaigned on change. It doesn’t matter what change he was talking about, most people don’t understand the nuances of politics. The whole thing vaguely confuses a lot of people. He was very much “I won’t be like the last guy” and that is a winning political strategy. People understand that their lives have sucked the past 4 years, they don’t understand the nuances of why, but they know Trump said he will change things. Conservative media tells them democrats just lie about Republicans. And they believe it.
We can yell at Republicans and their voters, sure. Just like the other German parties were free to yell at the nazis and the people who voted for them. But is that productive? Does that actually get them anywhere? Do you think the Republicans will change their strategies if we get mad them? Do you think their voters will vote differently if we tell them they’re fascists?
Unless you’re planning on overthrowing the current system of politics in America then you have to some kind of belief or notion that dems can win the next election. So the only people it even comes close to making sense to criticize are the Democrats. This election wasn’t stolen from them. The people voted. The people chose Trump. It was Harris’s one job to be more popular than Trump, to rally more support. She categorically failed at that. Bernie is right about why.
And again- I’m not saying Bernie is wrong or that the Dems don’t deserve some blame.
The point being- non-voters also deserve some blame. Let’s stop coddling those who don’t do anything at all.
Somehow we talk all about getting people to go out and vote and when they don’t, who do we blame? The people themselves who are too stupid, too lazy, or too disinterested to vote? Oh of course not. We use our whipping boy, the Democrats and only the Democrats.
But sure- keep telling them that it’s everyone else’s job to entertain them and that it’s totally not their fault if they stay home. Great strategy so far. 🙄
Yeah, we’re just going in circles here. The assumption being made is that everyone who didn’t vote actually had an opinion and was just “too stupid, too lazy, or too disinterested”. I don’t think that’s the case at all and it’s kind of offensive to even suggest it.
Idk what you mean by whipping boy lol… are you under the impression that criticizing them for things they do wrong is equal to abusing them in some way? They’re some of the most powerful people in society lol. They’re not poor, destitute, honest working Americans. They plan to literally shake a fascists hand as they give him nuclear launch codes and unrestricted federal power. They share the same system Trump does. They benefit from it in the same ways he does.
I’m all for overthrowing the political status quo entirely. Problem is organizing it, getting enough people on board.
Dems were supposed to be what saved us from fascism. They didn’t. They campaigned on doing that and then failed. They deserve criticism for that. Fascists do not care what we think. They will continue their projects with or without our approval. Anti-fascism needs to adequately counter their methods. But properly countering fascism is impossible if you’re a neoliberal conservative. And so thusly we are here. Waiting patiently for the powers that be to give a tyrannical fascist all the power he wants. They go back to their upper class lives, while the rest of us prepare for a new world order.
No it’s not garbage, it’s democracy. Its messy, sometimes the out come isn’t what’s best. The people with the most power should be the ones responsible. You’re not going to bully voters into voting for who you want. You have to offer them a compelling vision for the future.
Kamala chose to not distance herself from Biden and the on-going genocide. She chose to snuggle up to Liz Cheney. She made a plethora of other dumb decisions. She was held responsible for those dumb decisions and we’ll all pay the consequences.
Do Liberals want Vance? Because not learning this lesson is how you get Vance 2028.
Refusing to learn this lesson from Hillary 2016 is how we got Trump 2024. Y’all were saved by the bungling of a once in a lifetime pandemic in 2020.
There’s all this talk about we need a left-wing Joe Rogan. We have one and his name is Joe Rogan. He was excited to vote for Bernie in 2020. But, establishment shills didn’t want Bernie so they put their thumb on the scale against Bernie in 2020 and 2016.
If you want democracy to be better/less messy there are plenty of fairly obvious small ‘’d” democratic reforms we could do. But most would require the Democrats to give up power. So those won’t happen unless you criticize democrats relentlessly as well.
So in summary don’t deflect blame front those with the power to change things and offer voters compelling vision for the future.
1- the amount of people who withheld their vote for either Gaze or Cheney has to be minute.
2- I honestly don’t give a shit anymore. I most likely will be just fine. If people want to act like they have no civic duty then I hope they suffer the full wrath of the shit that is gonna come from this admin. maybe when they get hit in the face a million times they’ll wake the fuck up and do THEIR job.
3- That’s horseshit. Bernie was fucked in 2016 but not 2020. So others dropped out and Biden took the mantle yeah? Bernie couldn’t beat him. That is not “the establishment”'s fault. That’s the fault of, oh look at that, EVERY NON VOTER out there who said they liked him but didn’t vote for him. I voted for him and if we go by your line of reasoning- the reason he lost is “because he didn’t appeal to enough people.” Or wait- was it my line of reasoning that is right in that people DIDN’T VOTE? Hmm…
There was polling showing Bernie ahead of Hillary in 2016. In 2020 I would say it was more manufactured consent for Biden. The corporate-owned media was repeating over and over again that we need to run the Hillary-esk candidate or democrats would loose. It was obviously BS that there was no evidence for it but people bought it.
Chris Mathew’s literally said if Bernie won he would be executed like the Nazis. Bernie is a Jewish man whose entire extended family was murdered by the Nazis.
You didn’t get your way and now you’re saying fuck vulnerable groups. If you’re willing to ignore a genocide for political convenience then immediately say fuck the groups you ostensibly claimed to protect you’re no less racist than the republicans. You were only standing with those groups because it was politically convenient for you.
I guess we’ll see over the coming years if liberals are actually against racism or if they’ll continue to run as fascist-lite and lose. This conversation doesn’t inspire hope with that regard.
Ignore genocide? No. In fact, if someone possessed a brain they’d vote for Harris to avoid more genocide. But nice try.
My point being- people keep blaming only the Democrats over and over again and never take any actual responsibility themselves. I’m less miffed by those who voted third party (even though that was dumb) than those who plain didn’t care enough to do anything.
If they don’t want to be heard, then, again, fuck them. Hope they get the worst of this admin right after the trumpers who gleefully voted for fascism.
Cool. We can’t control them, though, unless you’ve come up with a method of forcing people to vote. The democratic party campaign was supposed to get popular support. People were supposed to want to vote for them. That’s the whole point of political campaigning. The democratic campaign was wildly unpopular on every single point other than “isn’t Trump”. They cozied up to fascist talking points time and again, border military and ethnic cleansing. She barely even campaigned on any progressive points. It was a joke of a campaign.
The democratic party has lost touch with reality. They will welcome fascists in with open arms. Those images won’t ever be forgotten.
Had a big campaign but you can’t control media not reporting on that and only reporting on what she said of Trump.
And no- the whole point of political campaigning is to get people to vote FOR YOU. Not to vote AT ALL.
Again- Dems might be out of touch or blah blah blah but it doesn’t excuse people not voting. So again, let’s yell at the dumbasses who sat it all out too. Or else you’re just reaffirming they can do the same again and again and somehow only place blame on political parties. That’s pure garbage.
Youre still not getting it. Yelling at voters will get you literally nothing. If your goal is a future where Republicans don’t control America then you need people to vote Democrat. Yelling at them isn’t going to achieve that. Unless you’re going to go full doomer on me and say that you don’t care what happens anymore, in which case why are you even participating in this conversation?
Blame entirely rests on the democratic party. That is the reality of the broken American political system. No one else is responsible for their political campaign failing to gain votes. They were given warning after warning after warning, they didn’t listen. This is the outcome created by those politics.
I’m not yelling at voters. I’m yelling at non-voters.
And no, no it doesn’t. It’s fun though- leftists, progressives, pundits, etc. always blame the Dems. Republicans have no standard to be held to evidently. And non-voters are always absolved of blame too. We can’t possibly blame the millions of people who decide that fascism or abortion rights or any other thing isn’t important enough to get the fuck off the couch and do the bare minimum.
So yeah- you keep telling them that’s fine. I’m very sure that you never blaming them will mean the Dems will turn it all around on their own and things will be just peachy.
You seem to think getting angry at people motivates them to vote for you lol.
And yeah the word fascism means nothing to the average voter. They don’t even know what that word means. Calling Trump a fascist (which he is) is not a winning political strategy.
She didn’t lose because of non-voters. Nearly every single district in the country shift further red. Even deep blue districts had higher red turn outs. She lost the same way Hillary did. Yes sexism and racism had a role in it, for sure. But they also both lost because of absolutely abysmal campaigns.
Trump campaigned on change. It doesn’t matter what change he was talking about, most people don’t understand the nuances of politics. The whole thing vaguely confuses a lot of people. He was very much “I won’t be like the last guy” and that is a winning political strategy. People understand that their lives have sucked the past 4 years, they don’t understand the nuances of why, but they know Trump said he will change things. Conservative media tells them democrats just lie about Republicans. And they believe it.
We can yell at Republicans and their voters, sure. Just like the other German parties were free to yell at the nazis and the people who voted for them. But is that productive? Does that actually get them anywhere? Do you think the Republicans will change their strategies if we get mad them? Do you think their voters will vote differently if we tell them they’re fascists?
Unless you’re planning on overthrowing the current system of politics in America then you have to some kind of belief or notion that dems can win the next election. So the only people it even comes close to making sense to criticize are the Democrats. This election wasn’t stolen from them. The people voted. The people chose Trump. It was Harris’s one job to be more popular than Trump, to rally more support. She categorically failed at that. Bernie is right about why.
And again- I’m not saying Bernie is wrong or that the Dems don’t deserve some blame.
The point being- non-voters also deserve some blame. Let’s stop coddling those who don’t do anything at all.
Somehow we talk all about getting people to go out and vote and when they don’t, who do we blame? The people themselves who are too stupid, too lazy, or too disinterested to vote? Oh of course not. We use our whipping boy, the Democrats and only the Democrats.
But sure- keep telling them that it’s everyone else’s job to entertain them and that it’s totally not their fault if they stay home. Great strategy so far. 🙄
Yeah, we’re just going in circles here. The assumption being made is that everyone who didn’t vote actually had an opinion and was just “too stupid, too lazy, or too disinterested”. I don’t think that’s the case at all and it’s kind of offensive to even suggest it.
Idk what you mean by whipping boy lol… are you under the impression that criticizing them for things they do wrong is equal to abusing them in some way? They’re some of the most powerful people in society lol. They’re not poor, destitute, honest working Americans. They plan to literally shake a fascists hand as they give him nuclear launch codes and unrestricted federal power. They share the same system Trump does. They benefit from it in the same ways he does.
What would you say to defend those people then?
All those things you say don’t bother the dems clearly doesn’t bother non voters then either. Meaning your criticism should go straight to them too.
I’m all for overthrowing the political status quo entirely. Problem is organizing it, getting enough people on board.
Dems were supposed to be what saved us from fascism. They didn’t. They campaigned on doing that and then failed. They deserve criticism for that. Fascists do not care what we think. They will continue their projects with or without our approval. Anti-fascism needs to adequately counter their methods. But properly countering fascism is impossible if you’re a neoliberal conservative. And so thusly we are here. Waiting patiently for the powers that be to give a tyrannical fascist all the power he wants. They go back to their upper class lives, while the rest of us prepare for a new world order.
No it’s not garbage, it’s democracy. Its messy, sometimes the out come isn’t what’s best. The people with the most power should be the ones responsible. You’re not going to bully voters into voting for who you want. You have to offer them a compelling vision for the future.
Kamala chose to not distance herself from Biden and the on-going genocide. She chose to snuggle up to Liz Cheney. She made a plethora of other dumb decisions. She was held responsible for those dumb decisions and we’ll all pay the consequences.
Do Liberals want Vance? Because not learning this lesson is how you get Vance 2028.
Refusing to learn this lesson from Hillary 2016 is how we got Trump 2024. Y’all were saved by the bungling of a once in a lifetime pandemic in 2020.
There’s all this talk about we need a left-wing Joe Rogan. We have one and his name is Joe Rogan. He was excited to vote for Bernie in 2020. But, establishment shills didn’t want Bernie so they put their thumb on the scale against Bernie in 2020 and 2016.
If you want democracy to be better/less messy there are plenty of fairly obvious small ‘’d” democratic reforms we could do. But most would require the Democrats to give up power. So those won’t happen unless you criticize democrats relentlessly as well.
So in summary don’t deflect blame front those with the power to change things and offer voters compelling vision for the future.
1- the amount of people who withheld their vote for either Gaze or Cheney has to be minute.
2- I honestly don’t give a shit anymore. I most likely will be just fine. If people want to act like they have no civic duty then I hope they suffer the full wrath of the shit that is gonna come from this admin. maybe when they get hit in the face a million times they’ll wake the fuck up and do THEIR job.
3- That’s horseshit. Bernie was fucked in 2016 but not 2020. So others dropped out and Biden took the mantle yeah? Bernie couldn’t beat him. That is not “the establishment”'s fault. That’s the fault of, oh look at that, EVERY NON VOTER out there who said they liked him but didn’t vote for him. I voted for him and if we go by your line of reasoning- the reason he lost is “because he didn’t appeal to enough people.” Or wait- was it my line of reasoning that is right in that people DIDN’T VOTE? Hmm…
There was polling showing Bernie ahead of Hillary in 2016. In 2020 I would say it was more manufactured consent for Biden. The corporate-owned media was repeating over and over again that we need to run the Hillary-esk candidate or democrats would loose. It was obviously BS that there was no evidence for it but people bought it.
Chris Mathew’s literally said if Bernie won he would be executed like the Nazis. Bernie is a Jewish man whose entire extended family was murdered by the Nazis.
You didn’t get your way and now you’re saying fuck vulnerable groups. If you’re willing to ignore a genocide for political convenience then immediately say fuck the groups you ostensibly claimed to protect you’re no less racist than the republicans. You were only standing with those groups because it was politically convenient for you.
I guess we’ll see over the coming years if liberals are actually against racism or if they’ll continue to run as fascist-lite and lose. This conversation doesn’t inspire hope with that regard.
Ignore genocide? No. In fact, if someone possessed a brain they’d vote for Harris to avoid more genocide. But nice try.
My point being- people keep blaming only the Democrats over and over again and never take any actual responsibility themselves. I’m less miffed by those who voted third party (even though that was dumb) than those who plain didn’t care enough to do anything.
If they don’t want to be heard, then, again, fuck them. Hope they get the worst of this admin right after the trumpers who gleefully voted for fascism.